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Pick and Place Machine Validation

Pick and Place Machine Validation

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Hi, How do you validate a pick and place machine's perf... - Mar 09, 2005 by

You can use Cp and Cpk to find out your machine performance ... - Mar 09, 2005 by

Click on OnBoard Forum under electronics forum. The last on... - Mar 10, 2005 by gregp

Borrow a large hungry dog (or wolf if local wildlife permits... - Mar 10, 2005 by Rob

Rob, Fantastic! I sure wish we would have put our requireme... - Mar 10, 2005 by RDR

Precisely why I run like hell at the sight of a salesman. T... - Mar 10, 2005 by

Russ - Sounds alot like Mydata to me....Some of these guys a... - Mar 10, 2005 by SMTequip, USA

Should have done your homework... ... - Mar 10, 2005 by SMTUser

Of course a new machine out of the box should perform at a r... - Mar 10, 2005 by Rick

The company is Eagle Eyed One. I worked with this company an... - Mar 12, 2005 by SMTUser

This company can come in to your facility with equipment to ... - Mar 14, 2005 by PeteC

I agree with Pete C. Not enough companies make their pick-&... - Mar 14, 2005 by SMTUser

Thanks for the positive feedback. In addition our standard m... - Mar 16, 2005 by

Appreciate the feedback SMTUser & link referral PeteC! Late ... - Mar 28, 2005 by CeTaQ-Sivigny

Greg

#33108

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 9 March, 2005

Hi,

How do you validate a pick and place machine's performance after installation? What standard will I use to track placement accuracy? what other factors do i need to look at?

thanks and regards,

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DasonC

#33110

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 9 March, 2005

You can use Cp and Cpk to find out your machine performance and accuracy. Some machine had it own software and kit. ie. Siemens. If you are using Fuji and you can visit the AD. on this web, TIMEKEY. Otherwise, you can use a high precision AOI with software. I am using Mitutoyo QVM404.

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gregp

#33134

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Click on OnBoard Forum under electronics forum. The last on board forum was by a guy who specializes in what you ask about. The company is Eagle Eyed One.

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Rob

#33136

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Borrow a large hungry dog (or wolf if local wildlife permits) & chain it up in the corner of the office when the salesman comes in. Then look over at it repeatedly whilst talking about your requirements. Feel free to leave him alone for a while...

Alternatively put your critical perameters into your p/o (CPK/CPH, downtime, programming times, PM's, component handling) with the method you intend to use to measure them, and note on the P/o that payment is due upon a sucessful trial providing all listed criteria are met.

Nothing like focusing a suppliers mind when he thinks he won't get paid.

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RDR

#33141

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Rob, Fantastic! I sure wish we would have put our requirements into our last P.O. The G.M of the manufacturer of this machine flat out promised and guranteed a certain CPH after reviewing the products that we would be producing. When the machine was installed and everything we noticed a significantly (about half) lower number. The engineers that installed the machine stated that "we would never get that CPH with our product". We have had the long term pissing matches with this company and it has not/will not be resolved. Rob, you are right. Once the check is in the mail you are screwed. I am not even going to bring up the "low maintenance" guarantee! If anyone wants to know who these people are please feel free to E-Mail me.

Russ

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Mark

#33147

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Precisely why I run like hell at the sight of a salesman. Though some are actually pretty knowledgeable engineers (these folks are not the cookie-cutter catalog pushing guys).

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SMTequip, USA

#33148

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Russ - Sounds alot like Mydata to me....Some of these guys are notoriously bad when it comes to this either because they are unknowledgeable, or desparate for business. On the other side of the coin, some buyers also tend to believe what they want to believe, and allow themselves to be overly influenced by PRICE. There is no free lunch - do your homework, test the machine yourself in the beginning, figure out the options and features you need (forget about the fluff, and ones you don't), worry about price LAST. AND REMEMBER: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Scott

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SMTUser

#33152

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Should have done your homework...

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Rick

#33155

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 10 March, 2005

Of course a new machine out of the box should perform at a realistic Sigma level and it's not unfair to hold a machine manufacturer true to their claims. However, even if a new machine does meet the criteria on day 1, the numbers will be constantly changing. Placement accuracy is affected by many, many things and will change from week to week or even day to day. The most minor things can change accuracy and CPK, CP numbers substantially such as a bent nozzle, clogged nozzle, poor vacuum, incorrect board support setups etc. It's not enough to do an accuracy test on a machine one time when it is new and expect it to stay at that level for long.....it's not gonna happen. Perform an accuracy test on a new machine to find out what it's capable of when it's new. Your goal is to attempt to maintain that level as time goes on.

Rick

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SMTUser

#33187

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 12 March, 2005

The company is Eagle Eyed One. I worked with this company and he does an excellent job.

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PeteC

#33200

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 14 March, 2005

This company can come in to your facility with equipment to measure the pick-&-place machine's accuracy and repeatability of placements in X-Y-Theta:

in North America,

http://americas.cetaq.com/index.php?lang=en

in Europe,

http://www.cetaq.com/

Not enough companies make their pick-&-place vendors prove the accuracy, repeatability, and CPH claims before buying the machine or taking delivery. We should all be sceptical. Do the due diligence. If CPH is critical, as it is with many, make them show you on a machine in their demo lab. For an EMS provider CPH can be the difference in making money on the job or loosing. Shame on anybody that does not ensure that the machine makes the rate before delivery. Get out of your plant and hit the road!

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SMTUser

#33203

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 14 March, 2005

I agree with Pete C. Not enough companies make their pick-&-place vendors prove the accuracy. So it is up to you to ask and most vendors are willing to help in this area. Universal does a good job in this area.

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MG Cyr

#33246

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 16 March, 2005

Thanks for the positive feedback. In addition our standard manufacturing validation, all of our Platform SM products (GSM, Advantis, Genesis etc.)include "on-board" CPK validation and "self calibration". In addition we do have a global relationship with CeTaQ. This relationship permits us to offer independent third party verification and also provides for a statistically valid (and validated) measurement product for our "non-platform" products including HSP's. Our relations with CeTaQ extend to CeTaQ Asia and CeTaQ Europe thus permitting consistent global service. Details are available through any regional service office or by contacting us through our website.

Regards, Mike Cyr Global Services Product Manager Universal Instruments Corporation

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CeTaQ-Sivigny

#33425

Pick and Place Machine Validation | 28 March, 2005

Appreciate the feedback SMTUser & link referral PeteC! Late 2004, EAGLE-EYED ONE changed its name to CeTaQ Americas. Still the same business, people and quality products and services. Changed for global synergy with our German parent and in support of our OEM service cooperations. For those inquiring about CPH and machine characterization testing, onsite execution of the IPC-9850 standard is now possible! Need to TRY before you BUY?, you know where to QUALIFY!

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