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AOI: Comparisons

AOI: Comparisons

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Hi, does anyone have any real experience in using the follow... - Aug 17, 2004 by Rob

Have you checked up on Samsung's AOI? I hear the provide a ... - Aug 18, 2004 by

I have no experience working with the systems you listed abo... - Aug 23, 2004 by MikeJ

Hi Mike, Thanks for the comments. We are upgrading o... - Aug 24, 2004 by Rob

hi, i am responsible for several SJ50s on our site. i will t... - Aug 24, 2004 by

Hi JB, Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions if t... - Aug 24, 2004 by Rob

1. quite easy. if you create a smart database for yourself t... - Aug 24, 2004 by

Thanks very much for your help JB. Cheers, ROb. ... - Aug 24, 2004 by Rob

Rob, I'm also in the evaluation stage. I've seen demos of t... - Aug 30, 2004 by

Mike: When you stated that you are looking for a differen... - Aug 30, 2004 by

We have the 1X scanners and have not tried the 2X scanner an... - Aug 30, 2004 by MikeJ

I need to address the issue for colorful display on solder j... - Aug 31, 2004 by

Rob and JohnR The ASC/Samsung VSS Series AOI uses white L... - Aug 31, 2004 by

Thanks for your input. Have you or anyone considered Cyb... - Aug 31, 2004 by

Rob

#30077

AOI: Comparisons | 17 August, 2004

Hi, does anyone have any real experience in using the following AOI systems (including opinions on support)?

Cyberoptics Flex Agilent SJ50 MVP Supra Landrex Optima (Teradyne)

Please fight the urge to pass comment or point out the error of my ways if you are a supplier of AOI systems!

Cheers,

Rob.

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mriddle

#30110

AOI: Comparisons | 18 August, 2004

Have you checked up on Samsung's AOI? I hear the provide a pretty good bang for the buck...

reply »

MikeJ

#30170

AOI: Comparisons | 23 August, 2004

I have no experience working with the systems you listed about, however I have experience working with a GSI Lumonics SVS systems measuring solder paste. I am also in the process in looking for new equipment to replace the GSI systems that is capable of measuring 0201 devices. Make sure that AOI systems pass a Gauge R&R so you can rely upon the results of the measurements.

Are you looking to measure solder paste or component placement?

I would add the Panasonic IPV to your list if you are looking for solder paste inspection.

Regards, MikeJ

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Rob

#30186

AOI: Comparisons | 24 August, 2004

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the comments.

We are upgrading our post reflow inspection - primarily solder joint inspection, and capable of keeping up with a maximum of 80K components an hour.

Solder paste inspection is currently carried out by our printers, and pre-reflow by MVT GS1's.

I'll take your paste inspection comments on board for when we next look to upgrade that part of the operation.

Cheers,

Rob.

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johnnybravo

#30187

AOI: Comparisons | 24 August, 2004

hi, i am responsible for several SJ50s on our site. i will try to reply to all questions, if you have any ;-) jb

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Rob

#30189

AOI: Comparisons | 24 August, 2004

Hi JB,

Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions if that's ok:

1) how easy is are the machines to program? 2) how reliable are they, and what is the support like? 3) what levels of false fails are you getting? 4) do they miss many errors?

Cheers,

Rob.

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johnnybravo

#30193

AOI: Comparisons | 24 August, 2004

1. quite easy. if you create a smart database for yourself to keep the algorythms easily available, it becomes even easier.

2. reliable, once they've been set up, and "burnt in". in the first couple of weeks they tend to have "child sicknesses". support: had no problems so far, fast and precise.

3. if you take your time with the programming and production-time optimizing, you can go very close to zero. there are many options (statistical tools, etc.) what you can use instead of manual optimizing thus saving huge amount of time, but then you will have at least 1-2 percent more false calls, due to the nature of these statistical tools. in case of some full-black bga-s, where the contrast is not really different from the surrounding colors, there can be some minor misalignments, but this is rare, and can be avoided by careful programming.

4. if you take your time with the programming and production-time optimizing (i wrote it down twice, because it is WAY too important!), then you will not have to deal with this issue.

br, jb

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Rob

#30194

AOI: Comparisons | 24 August, 2004

Thanks very much for your help JB.

Cheers,

ROb.

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JohnR

#30286

AOI: Comparisons | 30 August, 2004

Rob, I'm also in the evaluation stage. I've seen demos of the MVP ultra, Landrex Optima, VI-1000 (vi-technology), and the YesTech YTV-2050. I've also researched about eight others as well. Including Agilent, Orbotech, Omron, Cyberoptics, Viscom, GSI luminics, Panasonic, Vectron, and the SamSung "ASC". Have not found a whole lot of info on the Samsung though. I do believe the color systems w/image comparison is the way to go compared to the gray-scale algorithm based systems. I don't want to mention here the system I'm leaning toward, but you may contact me by e-mail @ jroman@tbwoods.com with any questions you may have.

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aburgos

#30293

AOI: Comparisons | 30 August, 2004

Mike:

When you stated that you are looking for a different AOI to replace GSI Lumonics because of 0201 solder paste inspection. Does that mean that you have a 1X scanner and it is not giving you reliable results? Have you tried the 2X scanner from GSI?

We are currently evaluating GSI for solder paste inspection and would like to know how the 1X scanner handles solder paste inspection on small deposits, i.e. 0201.

Thanks.

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

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MikeJ

#30294

AOI: Comparisons | 30 August, 2004

We have the 1X scanners and have not tried the 2X scanner and we cannot take the cycle time hit converting to the 2X head.

I would not recommend the 1X scanner for small paste deposits less than 800 cubic mils volume. Small solder deposits are �measured� by the 1X scanner, but there are problems with repeatability. But I have to question the results of the measurements (Gauge R&R > 30%). The volume 0201 deposits are around 500 cubic mils. We had a difficult time to get the machine to even measure the small deposits. So with the very poor gauge and the difficulty of running the programs we are looking elsewhere.

Mike

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AOI Solution

#30298

AOI: Comparisons | 31 August, 2004

I need to address the issue for colorful display on solder joints, for whoever researched on this machine, no one can deny it is a smart feature for visual assistance. however, it is still Mono color "gray scale" algorithm. it basically "paint" the image by overlaping RGB picture and use the RGB portion combination to justify how good the solder joint formed. Good side: Fancy Down side: it take longer time to program, fine tuned component can't be reused when stencil aperture is modified toward same component. For your reference take a look at TRI TR7006 for solder paste inspection and TR7100EP for AOI, it is the best performance/cost products existing.

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mriddle

#30304

AOI: Comparisons | 31 August, 2004

Rob and JohnR

The ASC/Samsung VSS Series AOI uses white LEDS and high-speed, high-resolution digital color cameras for image acquistion. While it can inspect for correct color by comparing RGB or HSL values, it does solder inspection by acquiring a gray-scale image from the color image and then uses one of the 256 gray scale levels to define a binary image (below the selected level is black, above is white). Most of the imspection algoritms use the binary image, looking at size and position of the white/black features. The algorithms are very flexible, allowing the user to set acceptable boundaries as tight or as loose as required. The system can also perform pattern matching (image comparison).

The VSS series was originally developed for Samsung's mobile phone factories, where high volume and small parts demand high-resolution, high-throughput and reliability. Today, Samsuns mobile phone factories have nearly 50 VSS Systems in production.

If you want more information, visit:

http://www.ascinternational.com/samsung.html

or ASC International Toll Free at 1-888-478-2912

Good luck in your search.

Mike R.

ASC International

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burgosa

#30305

AOI: Comparisons | 31 August, 2004

Thanks for your input.

Have you or anyone considered CyberOptics SE300? How does it works for small solder paste deposits (i.e. 0201)?