DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question

#83688

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 6 November, 2019

We have a DEK HORIZON 265 that seems to be having an issue with the pressure setting for the squeeges.

It seems to have an override making the set point of the squeege pressure always be 5kg.

I have it set to 12kg, but on the first print, it errors saying "Actual Pressure: 7.5kg (or something), Set Pressure: 5.0kg"

No matter the pressure we change it to, it says the set pressure is 5.0kg. Once the first print is done, it doesn't show that error anymore, and has the set pressure showing 12kg on the main screen.

Could it just always use 5kg as the initial calibration? But if so, then the first print is always at the wrong pressure..

Wippsen

#83689

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 6 November, 2019

i think u should do a pressure calibration. Maintenance Menu --> Machine Calibration --> Pressure

#83690

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 6 November, 2019

To do that requires a calibration scale, which we don't have. But even if it is out of calibration, it still wouldn't explain why it states that the setpoint is 5kg always, even when it is set to 12kg.

#83691

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 6 November, 2019

If it is always showing 5.0Kg as the "target" value on the error on the first print then yes there is a problem. Are you certain that it is accomplishing the requested (12Kg ?) on the prints thereafter? Does it do Heights calibration (no tools required) properly?

What software version / SP is machine running?

#83698

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 7 November, 2019

OK, got a lot of information today doing some testing..

Version number:- 07 SP11 (985 B02) Released Dec 8 2006

I did the tool(less) calibration of the squeegee height, which worked fine, no error.

Did a test print, as you can see from the image, the front and rear set pressure is 9.0kg, yet the error message shows set pressure 5.0kg..

Any thoughts?

Attachments:

#83709

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

Hi, I just set one of these up a month or so ago, so it's all pretty fresh. The 265s have a pressure sensor amplifier box that needs calibration using the OEM calibration jig. OR you can use a 3 quid digital luggage scale from Ebay. The calibration is just 2 potentiometers to set a baseline and linear accuracy with pressure increases. The amplifier box is on the Squeegee Bar, mounted behind it on the left hand side ( it is on ours anyway ). Do you have the service information for this machine - or the setup procedures for calibration ?

#83710

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

> Hi, I just set one of these up a month or so
> ago, so it's all pretty fresh. The 265s have a
> pressure sensor amplifier box that needs
> calibration using the OEM calibration jig. OR you
> can use a 3 quid digital luggage scale from Ebay.
> The calibration is just 2 potentiometers to set a
> baseline and linear accuracy with pressure
> increases. The amplifier box is on the Squeegee
> Bar, mounted behind it on the left hand side ( it
> is on ours anyway ). Do you have the service
> information for this machine - or the setup
> procedures for calibration ?

Thanks.

I don't know if I have the manual or not. But I dont think the issue is the calibration, since I don't care that the actual pressure is different. The issue is that the set point is 5kg, even when I set it to be 9kg..

#83712

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

the issue is the calibration. What you set it for has to match what it actually reads or you get the error screen at the end of every pass. If you go into the maintenance menu ( using the key next to the system button ) you can check that the pressure amp is working. Go to the squeegee calibration menu and you get a real-time display of what the sensor is detecting. If you bypass the top cover with a magnet you can reach in and press down on the blades and see the reading change on the screen. This will confirm whether the pressure amplifier unit is working or not, if it is giving a reading and this changes with manually added pressure then it just needs calibration by the sound of it

#83713

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

> the issue is the calibration. What you set it for
> has to match what it actually reads or you get
> the error screen at the end of every pass. If
> you go into the maintenance menu ( using the key
> next to the system button ) you can check that
> the pressure amp is working. Go to the squeegee
> calibration menu and you get a real-time display
> of what the sensor is detecting. If you bypass
> the top cover with a magnet you can reach in and
> press down on the blades and see the reading
> change on the screen. This will confirm whether
> the pressure amplifier unit is working or not, if
> it is giving a reading and this changes with
> manually added pressure then it just needs
> calibration by the sound of it

I'm sorry, I still am not following what you mean.. If you see on my image, I set the front and rear pressure to 9kg, but the error screen shows the set pressure as 5kg. Why is it ever trying to have the pressure be 5kg,it should be 9kg?

Also, this error only shows on the first board, never again after.

Thanks

#83714

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

Yeah, sorry, just noticed that bit on the photo. I'll have to have a look at my machine on Monday to see if there's anything that might explain it. The pressure system is pretty much the same on all the 265 variants so if you can find a service manual online it should give you pretty much the information you need regarding calibrating etc. Not dead sure if the calibration is directly/indirectly causing the problem you're having, but if it's calibrated correctly then it's one less thing that can cause potential problems.

#83715

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

> Yeah, sorry, just noticed that bit on the
> photo. I'll have to have a look at my machine on
> Monday to see if there's anything that might
> explain it. The pressure system is pretty much
> the same on all the 265 variants so if you can
> find a service manual online it should give you
> pretty much the information you need regarding
> calibrating etc. Not dead sure if the
> calibration is directly/indirectly causing the
> problem you're having, but if it's calibrated
> correctly then it's one less thing that can cause
> potential problems.

Great thanks for looking into it!

Definitely our calibration could be wrong, and I plan of calibrating it later, but at this point I figured getting the set point correct is more important!

#83717

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

No problem. I'll get a picture of our calibration setup for you too, give you an idea of how to do it for a couple of bucks instead of getting the official calibration jigs !!

#83718

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 9 November, 2019

Not to be disagreeable, but sounds like "RichC" is describing earlier series 265 calibrations... (based upon location of PSR Amp and magnets to bypass cover interlock a 265MK1 (v. 1992-94). That "readings" calibration on your machine is strictly a software calibration (pressure factor) but still requires the psr cal jig. That being said, I do not believe yours is a calibration issue. Requested value displayed on error SHOULD BE what is written into the product file / displayed on-screen. I would have no confidence that it is actually printing with the correct pressure, more likely the 5 Kg is believes is the target. Does pressure (print stroke evidence) seem change with changes in the setting in product file? Have you tried writing a new program from scratch? Beyond that I would recommend reload of machine software.

#83719

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 10 November, 2019

Not disagreeable at all. You're correct that I was referring to a Mk1, and in this instance it's hard to trust the display without ensuring the calibration is right

#83726

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 11 November, 2019

Alrighty... Problem solved - ended up not being a problem at all.

So, what I didn't realize, was that the knead pressure was 5kg, and the first print was always kneaded, so that's why the set pressure showed 5kg. After it was done kneading, the set pressure changed to 12kg like was expected.

Thanks so much for all the help!

Side question - is 5kg a normal pressure value for kneading? Should it always be less than print pressure?

#83727

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 11 November, 2019

Knead pressure, is normally at or slightly lower (maybe 25%) than print pressure...

#83728

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 11 November, 2019

> Knead pressure, is normally at or slightly lower
> (maybe 25%) than print pressure...

Ahh makes sense.

Couple other quick questions if you don't mind:

1) Currently do kneading after 15 mins of no activity, with 3 knead passes, is that normal?

2) When is two print strokes per board used vs just one?

Thanks!

#83729

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 11 November, 2019

Pretty much paste dependent on what is required. I am not a huge fan of kneading unless absolutely necessary, so 15 minutes seems pretty short, and generally do only 2 strokes. Multiple print deposits is used when, for whatever reason you are not seeing complete aperture fill on one pass. Most commonly,larger apertures near one edge of the board, when print stroke starts from that edge there is less roll resulting in incomplete fill, a dual stroke alleviates for obvious reason.

#85529

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 26 August, 2020

Hello. Could I ask you for help. We have DEK Europa. We have changed ProFlow to squeegee head with feedback. After this during solder paste printing system shows the difference between set pressure (9 kg) and real pressure (7,5kg). I have read manual for changing to squeegee head and everything was done accordingly. Unfortunately we have no opportunity to make a calibrations of pressure for squeegees because we don't have a squeegee pressure plate and mounting plate for portable force Gauge. I would like to ask you for dimensions of them. It will be great to get drawings of them. Will highly appreciate your help! Thank you in advance!

#85532

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 27 August, 2020

Have you done Squeegee Heights calibration? (no tools required) Does it complete cal routine without error? Does pressure compensate on next print, with corresponding squeegee, following acknowledgement of pressure error? The readings calibration, generally, not involved in pressure errors... It matches up the feedback value to actual pressure. Pressure errors would normally be associated with either strain gauge issues or heights calibration problems. DEKHEAD

#85535

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 27 August, 2020

Yes, I calibrated the height, no error. How can I check that pressure was compensated? If we press button "continue" after some cycles of printing system will show "error".

Attachments:

#85537

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 27 August, 2020

Following a pressure error, if continue is pressed, the next print with THE CORRESPONDING squeegee should attempt to compensate by increase or decrease in pressure (as appropriate)... Is it: 1)Not changing at all? 2)Over compensating? 3)Under compensating?

If it is compensating, is it after a number of prints, settling in where there is no error... or does it never stablise?

#85540

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 28 August, 2020

After 2-3 cycles error disappear.

#85541

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 28 August, 2020

> After 2-3 cycles error disappear.

Then you do not have an issue. That is the way the printer is supposed to work.

#85543

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 28 August, 2020

It is not abnormal for the first 2-4 prints to be compensation strokes where the print pressure stablises to its set pressure, ideally the variation is < 1Kg, and is thus transparent to the operator. Possible factors in this include: - incorrect board thickness in product file. - Inadequate (or misplaced) board support. - Damaged squeegee blades. - Build-up of dried paste in / on squeegee squeegee ass'y.

If it is stablising after first 2 strokes on each squeegee, then machine hardware is functioning as designed.

#85582

DEK HORIZON 265 Squeege Pressure question | 2 September, 2020

Thank you very much.