SMTnet.com Electronics Manufacturing Forum http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/ Printed circuit board assembly, surface mount technology and electronics manufacturing forum discussions from SMTnet.com. Wed, 22 Oct 2014 04:46:47 GMT Black Tar on ENIG http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17766 I have seen a couple of references to Black Tar, Not Black Pad. Apparently, it occurs only on the solder side of PTH's after wave solder and primarily on the edges of the land. It is characterized by a black coloration (Not Ni corrosion?) and non-wetting. The component side does not exhibit any problems. Except for a couple of references in the NPL Solder Defects database, I haven't been able to find any info. Anyone have any input? Thanks, Rick Tue, 21 Oct 2014 22:25:35 GMT MPM Work Light --- MPM 2000 HiE printer work light troubleshoot http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17767 Hello, We have an MPM 2000 HiE printer. when opening the lid, the light does not come on. It looks like a typical kitchen fluorescent light fixture. Replaced the bulb, but still does not light. Does the fixture have the starter inside? Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:36:50 GMT Destacker will not separate 1mm thick boards http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17768 My UIC destacker does fine with 2mm thick boards. However, I have to hand feed the 1mm thick boards. I have seen vacuum board placers for small boards but not for large boards. I need to get a solution for 24" x and 16" y boards that are only 1 mm thick. Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:07:35 GMT Philips Topaz/Emerald LED Nozzle --- Need supplier http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17743 Hi everyone, Any idea where can I purchase a nozzle for 3535 LEDs in general or Cree XPE specific, for a Philips Topaz/Emerald machine? Tue, 21 Oct 2014 05:28:37 GMT SMT-Precise --- Good, Bad, Ugly http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17765 Has anyone had any products from this company? Just wanting to find out a bit more on the quality side of things. Regards Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:58:13 GMT PCB edge connector --- part recommendation http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17764 im designing a circuit that will require the use of a edge connector so it can connect to another circuit. i need to do this so i can get both micro controllers communicating i have done a bit of research and am thinking about using a pcb manufacture site but dont know how to do this what software will i need to draw the circuit and should a use a common edge connector like a pci one from a computer ? what about doing the edge connector on the pcb like size , depth ect i have found some on ebay // note: a bit too big for my project// link = <a class=roll href="http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/805-Series-Solder-Socket-2x18P-36Pin-3-96mm-Pitch-Card-Edge-Connector-/400773975624?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5d4ffd8e48" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/805-Series-Solder-Socket-2x18P-36Pin-3-96mm-Pitch-Card-Edge-Connector-/400773975624?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5d4ffd8e48 </a> Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:53:39 GMT MPM AP/C (AP25?) manual --- hardware limit error, but no axis near limit http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17751 I just got a used AP/C which I guess is also called an AP25? After fixing a few obvious issues, I powered it up, and get a hardware limit error. I have verified that none of the axis are near their limits. Without a manual, I'm not sure where to go next. Any help with either the problem, or manuals would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jon Mon, 20 Oct 2014 15:28:22 GMT Universal GSM 2 --- Timeout waiting for nozzle changer vacuum buildup http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17749 Got a failure while starting up our GSM, and hoping you guys have an easy fix that we're not seeing. We're getting a Timeout waiting for nozzle changer vacuum buildup. It seems to be occurring on head 2, during nozzle change. We've reseated all of the nozzles, and redone the nozzle inventory (as we found that it was incorrect). We were able to get head 1 to change it's nozzles after fixing this, but, head 2 doesn't want to change. There is no obvious air leak that we can detect; the changer does pop up for the change. Any thoughts as to things we should check? Thanks, ..rob Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:56:51 GMT UNIVERSAL 6772A Dip Machine --- lost communication http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17750 Greetings, We have a very old IC insertion machine mentioned in the subject line. The system seems to have lost all communication between the computer and the machine. The connections between them are good and I do not see any signs of electrical damage. The computer screen comes up as a garbled mess when trying to run it. We have tried reloading the program with no success. Is there anything specific I should look for to try and figure out the problem? Any help is appreciated... Thanks, Joe Sat, 18 Oct 2014 22:34:29 GMT Problem with rigid-flex PCB pressing (PVC and PET damage) http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17763 I just like to ask if somebody else experienced a similar problem: We press rigid flex PCBs at 356°F (180°C). The buffer layer construction is: Plate PET PVC PET PCB etc So far there were never any problems. But suddenly the PVC becomes very black, the PET gets damaged and the PVC may contaminates the PCB and the press steel. I wonder if you ever had similar problems. Right now we use PTFE instead of PET, but the much higher cost is of course a problem. Sat, 18 Oct 2014 11:01:04 GMT CNC lead trimming http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17762 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 19:15:51 GMT Wave Solder Issues - Hole Fill http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17745 We are having an intermittent issue with a certain board on our wave solder line, machine is a Vitronics 6922 Delta Wave, leaded process. There are 2 fuse holders on one edge of the board that are not getting solder all the way thru the barrel every time. Any way I have tried increasing the flux pressure(spray fluxer), slowed down the speed, (board temp is O/A 200F) at which the board goes thru the solder, turned board in different directions which was partially successful except we started seeing some bridging on a different part, we have increased the solder wave, it also was partially successful, but we were also flooding too many boards. I have tried to upload a picture, but am unable to SMT net keeps coming up with an error. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:31:53 GMT CR2032 coin battery soldering through wave soldering process http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17761 We are doing hand soldering for the 'BATTERY LITHIUM COIN CELL 3V CR 2032 but now we want do the soldering through wave soldering process ,for avoiding the shortckt only one pin will get solder through wave process and other pin will be soldered manually , Pls advice the process and impact of the temperature on the battery Fri, 17 Oct 2014 15:23:28 GMT MyData TP9-UFP : Optical Centering Calibration Question http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17759 We have tpsys 1.5.18 on our TP9-UFP. We are attempting to run "Optical Centering Calibration". Following the instructions in the manual, we have centered the cross hairs on the camera frame, loaded a "base" board then the L-19-447 calibration board, found the two reference points, and found a location for checking board height. The machine uses tool C23 and picks the calibration board. The cal board is slowly raised until it is knocked off the C23 tool by the centering jaws assembly. The software then wants us to find the reference points again. The cycle repeats. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for answering. John Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:48:59 GMT My first procurement experience of PCB http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17760 I’m an intern in an American company which is specialized in manufacturing electric instruments. Working in the purchase department, I was told to look for some pcb manufactures for our products. As a novice without much experience, I handle this order very carefully as it is my first order. I spent whole three days to finish my searching job. There are 3 Americans, 2 Britishes, 1 Australia, and 2 Chinese pcb manufactures. I got their detailed information, such as their charges for the board and shipping , lead and shipping time, and so on. Then I sorted out this information and shared it with you. Following are the pcb requirements: Dimension: 80*100mm Quantity: 10 Material:FR-4 Layers:2 layers Board thickness:1.6mm Solder mask: green Silkscreen: white Surface finish: HASL with lead Finished copper: 1oz Cu 10pieces. As an American, it is necessary to find some American companies. Following are some information for them. 1. Advanced Circuits : the quickest lead time is same day, which it charges $1012. And it needs $429 for 3 days lead time. Of course the more you purchase, the less you will pay for unit price. When comes to the shipment, there are three different choices: Overnight shipping may cost around $70, 2 day shipping may cost around $60, 3 day shipping may cost around $40. Therefore, the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $1092, and the most common charge for the whole purchasing is around $479. And there are online customer, phone, and email services, according to my practical experience, their email reply is late but detailed. Its online quote is instant and convenient. Its online quote is inconvenient for you have to register and login in, then you can get a quote only the board but not the shipping information. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.4pcb.com" target="_blank">http://www.4pcb.com </a> 2. Imagineering: same as Advanced Circuits, its quickest lead time is same day, which it charges $372.5. And it costs 171 for 5 days lead time. Its charge for shipping is free, except it cost $25 for overnight shipping. So the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $397.5 , and the common charge for the whole purchasing is around $171. And their email reply is fast. Its online quote is instant and convenient but not the shipping information unless you registered and login in. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.pcbnet.com/" target="_blank">http://www.pcbnet.com/ </a> 3. PCB International: its quickest lead time is 2 days, which it charges $421.1. And it takes $238.7 for 5 days lead time. In addition, its quickest shipping charges $57.63 for overnight by 10:30 am, and 3 days for $14.95. Thus the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $478.73, and the most common charge for the whole purchasing is around $253.65. Their email reply is fast. Its online quote is instant and convenient. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.pcbinternational.com" target="_blank">http://www.pcbinternational.com </a> Here are two Chinese pcb manufactures. 1. Pcbway: its quickest lead time is 2 days, which it charges $69, much cheaper than others. And it takes $15 for 5days lead time. And its shipping with DHL charge is $41 for 3-7 days. Thus the total charge for the quickest lead time is $56, 5 days for $110. Its online quote is instant and convenient, you can get instant online quote for the board and shipping information without register. And its email reply is instant and detailed. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.pcbway.com/" target="_blank">http://www.pcbway.com/ </a> 2. ZHONG XIN HUA GROUP: there is only 4 to 5 days lead time, and it needs $55 for this board. There are two kinds of shipping choices: $45 for 4-5 days HK shipping, and $60 for 5-7 days DHL shipping. Therefore, their total charges are $100 and $115 relatively. There isn’t online quote, but its online customer and email services are instant and detailed. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.zxhgroup.com/" target="_blank">http://www.zxhgroup.com/ </a> Here is an Australia company. 1. The PCB Company Pty Ltd: the total fee is $278.96 which include the shipping cost $40, it is based on their standard service which is a 2-3 week delivery to your door. As for the fast service,they need 3 days to manufacture the board, if the order is placed on a Tuesday it will be finished and ready to ship on a Friday.It will then ship out to you and should get it on the Monday.This is best case and you will receive in 6 calendar days.But the order placed on Thursday, it will ship from our Factory the following Tuesday.There is some change UPS will only delivery it by the following Monday. This means it will end up taking up 11 calendar days, the total fee is $428.96.It’s a inconvenience when you want to quote online, the order can not be placed online and it has no online customer service staff. But their email reply very fast, and the content is what I want to know.If their price can be cheaper,I will cooperate with them. Website: <a class=roll href="http://www.pcbco.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.pcbco.com.au </a> Here are two UK companies. 1. Multi-cb: the order can be placed online but it has no online customer service staff.The website shows they need 5 days to manufacture and the board fee is $148, As for the fast service,they need 2 days to manufacture, the board fee is $281. But I can not find the shipping cost to Chicago, it only shows the shipping cost in Europe! This company makes me very depressed because they never give me an email reply! I do not know what they leave a email address for. Website: https://portal.multi-circuit-boards.eu/ 2. PCB-POOL: if based on their standard service, the board fee is $342 with a 5 days lead time, and the shipping cost is $25, the total fee is $367 which include VAT. As for the fast service, they need 1 day to manufacture the board, but it need $1,080, the total fee will be very expensive, about $1,105! And I also email them to ask the shipping time, but they only inform me shipping cost not the shipping time. The order can be placed online and it has no online customer service staff. Website: https://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/order_productconfiguration_js.html#00 Summary: 1. Advanced Circuits : standard:total fee is $479 with 5-6 days express:total fee is around $1092 with 1-2days its service leave me a good expression, but its online quote is relatively inconvenient for you have to register and login in, then you can get a quote only the board but not the shipping information. 2. Imagineering: standard:total fee is $171 with 5-6 days express:total fee is around $372.5 with 1-2days *(the shipping charge is not included.) Its online service is relatively good, and its online quote is instant and convenient but without instant shipping quote. The email reply is short and going into certain details. 3. PCB International: standard:total fee is $253.65 with 8 days express:total fee is around $478.73 with 2-3 days Their email reply is fast . Its online quote is instant and convenient. 4. Pcbway: standard:total fee is $56 with 8-12 days express:total fee is around $110 with 4-8 days It is the most instant and convenient online quote service, which give me a deep impression. 5. ZHONG XIN HUA GROUP: standard:total fee is $100 with 9-12 days express:total fee is around $115 with 8-10 days There isn’t online quote, but its online customer and email services are instant and detailed. 6. The PCB Company Pty Ltd: standard:total fee is $278.96 with 2-3weeks for total time Express:total fee is $428.96 with 6-11days for total time This company give me a good impression. Although there is no online quote and service staff, the email reply is good. 7. Multi-cb: standard:board fee is $148 with 5 days build time. Express: board fee is $281 with 2 days build time I can not get the shipping price because the online quote only shows the shipping cost to Europe, no I never receive their email reply! The attitude is not good at all. 8. PCB-POOL: standard:total fee is $367 with 5 days build time Express: total fee is $1,105 with 1 day build I can not inform you the total time because the email reply only tell me the shipping cost. The order can be placed online,but I can not find the shipping cost online and they do not have online service staff. I hope it helps as I share this purchase experience to you. Also, if you have some other manufacturer resources, pls share it to us. Fri, 17 Oct 2014 05:00:14 GMT panadac 321-4 http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17724 hello, Is there anyone that remember the meaning of CNG led ? Thank you Thu, 16 Oct 2014 16:18:17 GMT Nitrogen Reflow Oven --- Ballpark pricing http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17723 Does anyone know a rough price estimate on a new nitrogen reflow oven that can achieve very low oxygen levels - around 10PPM. Compared to a similar standard nitrogen oven that would for example go down to 500 PPM, what is a rough price premium for an oven capable of reaching low oxygen levels? Thu, 16 Oct 2014 16:15:36 GMT Need servo motor for Yamaha YG100R machine http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17758 I'm looking for a new or used servo motor for my Yamaha YG100R PnP machine with original model: Q2GA04006VXS2C (Sanyo denki ) If anyone can offer it please contact me ASAP. Thanks & best regards, Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:23:09 GMT Wrong Parts Loaded......again -- Part Verification System http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17753 Hello everyone. I'm looking for input on everyone's PVS (part verification system). At our facility we have a a straight forward, low tech verification system. Feeder files are exported from our equipment software to excel with columns containing Feeder Location>Designator>Part Number>Alternate. 2D labels are placed on all slots of the machine, operator scans slot, scans reel with unique material ID. Green light if it's good, red light if it's bad. Our software cannot lock out a machine if there is an incorrect scan. One operator does all the verification. Once in production our in house PVS goes into "Run Mode" where it allows verification for splice scans, but will not accept a material ID that has already been scanned into the PVS. We still have operators scan slot, verify reel, load into wrong slot. It's a challenging task but is there anyone with some suggestions that can reduce this mistake? I'm told double verification will not work. First article is out of the question. What's everyone else doing? Thanks! Thu, 16 Oct 2014 13:25:04 GMT Flying Probe http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17746 So I got this engnieer that says the boards I waved for him dont pass his flying probe test. What the heck is a flying probe? If it's anything like my doctors probe, I don't want anything to do with it!! Wed, 15 Oct 2014 23:49:42 GMT Clear plastic SMT carrier tapes - what plastic grade for recycling http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17757 Can anyone suggest what plastic type SMT tapes for mostly embossed/deep pocket tapes are for recycling? I am talking about semi clear type, for 16/24mm widths usually pocketed. The black tapes we get from our Tape and reel supplier are thermo formed "6" but I do not know how to determine what the clear ones are if the same????? PEte Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:52:36 GMT Press fit parts help --- seeing some measling / delamination http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17756 We use a few different style of press fit connectors, terminals, studs, etc. We use a tabletop arbor press for most everything we do, but a lot of times we will see some measling or slight delamination around the holes for the press fit part. Is there anything recommended besides an arbor press? Wed, 15 Oct 2014 03:59:00 GMT VisionMaster 3D SPI --- Good / Bad / Ugly http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17755 Hi all, Does anyone have any experiences (good or bad) with VisionMaster 3D SPI? Thanks, Rob. Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:33:45 GMT best way to get power to PCB [without using a connector, heh heh] http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17709 Hello Esteemed Panel, I have a question...what is the most cost effective way to get power to a PCB? By this I mean connecting power and ground without a connector but something more reliable than soldering a wire directly to the PCB. Whatever solution you mention please also elaborate somewhat on the process involved (i.e. is it surface mount?...through hole?...can it be automated?) Thanks all.. =Greg= Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:30:00 GMT Backup (mapping and calibration) of GSM2 with Both Flexjet Head [beam2 is randomly off] http://www.smtnet.com/Forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=17754 Hello, I am looking for the backup (mapping and calibration) of Universal GSM2 with both beam with Flexjet head. I am having problem with placement from beam2 is randomly off. Either X, Y or theta. Beam1 is placing all the parts with no problem and it is accurate too. I am hoping that mapping files are corrupt for beam2. I did the calibration of the machine couple of time too. Camera takes pictures and also draws cross hair in the center of the part but it places off. Any help. Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:10:30 GMT