Electronics Manufacturing Forum Printed circuit board assembly, surface mount technology and electronics manufacturing forum discussions from Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:39:55 GMT Dek printing issue Having a problem with a DEK printer. In the back to front motion, getting poor ramdom paste volume on micro BGA pads. Other BGA 1 mm pads are fine. The front to back motion is fine. Any throufghts on this directional issue. Ran ~200 panels no problem , no set up changes or adjustments before problem cropped up. Stencil? Changed squeeges, recalibrated pressure, same paste, double vison alignment, grid locks checked. Bill Fri, 31 Oct 2014 14:09:07 GMT SMD Via hole design Does anyone well know in "via hole design in ground pad" I have few question that i want to know the answer,thanks. 1.Thermal performance compare about a.Via Full Stuff (top/bottom:solder mask and inside is air) b.Via Half Stuff (bottom:solder mask,top open,so solder paste will stuff the hole) 2.Via hole number compare with thermal test Does any paper or information about those question? Thanks for your help and wish you have a nice day! Fri, 31 Oct 2014 09:26:08 GMT best way to get power to PCB [without using a connector, heh heh] Hello Esteemed Panel, I have a question...what is the most cost effective way to get power to a PCB? By this I mean connecting power and ground without a connector but something more reliable than soldering a wire directly to the PCB. Whatever solution you mention please also elaborate somewhat on the process involved (i.e. is it surface mount?...through hole?...can it be automated?) Thanks all.. =Greg= Fri, 31 Oct 2014 09:14:25 GMT Web Development Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:02:29 GMT Web Development Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:58:19 GMT My first procurement experience of PCB I’m an intern in an American company which is specialized in manufacturing electric instruments. Working in the purchase department, I was told to look for some pcb manufactures for our products. As a novice without much experience, I handle this order very carefully as it is my first order. I spent whole three days to finish my searching job. There are 3 Americans, 2 Britishes, 1 Australia, and 2 Chinese pcb manufactures. I got their detailed information, such as their charges for the board and shipping , lead and shipping time, and so on. Then I sorted out this information and shared it with you. Following are the pcb requirements: Dimension: 80*100mm Quantity: 10 Material:FR-4 Layers:2 layers Board thickness:1.6mm Solder mask: green Silkscreen: white Surface finish: HASL with lead Finished copper: 1oz Cu 10pieces. As an American, it is necessary to find some American companies. Following are some information for them. 1. Advanced Circuits : the quickest lead time is same day, which it charges $1012. And it needs $429 for 3 days lead time. Of course the more you purchase, the less you will pay for unit price. When comes to the shipment, there are three different choices: Overnight shipping may cost around $70, 2 day shipping may cost around $60, 3 day shipping may cost around $40. Therefore, the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $1092, and the most common charge for the whole purchasing is around $479. And there are online customer, phone, and email services, according to my practical experience, their email reply is late but detailed. Its online quote is instant and convenient. Its online quote is inconvenient for you have to register and login in, then you can get a quote only the board but not the shipping information. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> 2. Imagineering: same as Advanced Circuits, its quickest lead time is same day, which it charges $372.5. And it costs 171 for 5 days lead time. Its charge for shipping is free, except it cost $25 for overnight shipping. So the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $397.5 , and the common charge for the whole purchasing is around $171. And their email reply is fast. Its online quote is instant and convenient but not the shipping information unless you registered and login in. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> 3. PCB International: its quickest lead time is 2 days, which it charges $421.1. And it takes $238.7 for 5 days lead time. In addition, its quickest shipping charges $57.63 for overnight by 10:30 am, and 3 days for $14.95. Thus the total charge for the quickest lead and shipping times is $478.73, and the most common charge for the whole purchasing is around $253.65. Their email reply is fast. Its online quote is instant and convenient. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Here are two Chinese pcb manufactures. 1. Pcbway: its quickest lead time is 2 days, which it charges $69, much cheaper than others. And it takes $15 for 5days lead time. And its shipping with DHL charge is $41 for 3-7 days. Thus the total charge for the quickest lead time is $56, 5 days for $110. Its online quote is instant and convenient, you can get instant online quote for the board and shipping information without register. And its email reply is instant and detailed. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> 2. ZHONG XIN HUA GROUP: there is only 4 to 5 days lead time, and it needs $55 for this board. There are two kinds of shipping choices: $45 for 4-5 days HK shipping, and $60 for 5-7 days DHL shipping. Therefore, their total charges are $100 and $115 relatively. There isn’t online quote, but its online customer and email services are instant and detailed. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Here is an Australia company. 1. The PCB Company Pty Ltd: the total fee is $278.96 which include the shipping cost $40, it is based on their standard service which is a 2-3 week delivery to your door. As for the fast service,they need 3 days to manufacture the board, if the order is placed on a Tuesday it will be finished and ready to ship on a Friday.It will then ship out to you and should get it on the Monday.This is best case and you will receive in 6 calendar days.But the order placed on Thursday, it will ship from our Factory the following Tuesday.There is some change UPS will only delivery it by the following Monday. This means it will end up taking up 11 calendar days, the total fee is $428.96.It’s a inconvenience when you want to quote online, the order can not be placed online and it has no online customer service staff. But their email reply very fast, and the content is what I want to know.If their price can be cheaper,I will cooperate with them. Website: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Here are two UK companies. 1. Multi-cb: the order can be placed online but it has no online customer service staff.The website shows they need 5 days to manufacture and the board fee is $148, As for the fast service,they need 2 days to manufacture, the board fee is $281. But I can not find the shipping cost to Chicago, it only shows the shipping cost in Europe! This company makes me very depressed because they never give me an email reply! I do not know what they leave a email address for. Website: 2. PCB-POOL: if based on their standard service, the board fee is $342 with a 5 days lead time, and the shipping cost is $25, the total fee is $367 which include VAT. As for the fast service, they need 1 day to manufacture the board, but it need $1,080, the total fee will be very expensive, about $1,105! And I also email them to ask the shipping time, but they only inform me shipping cost not the shipping time. The order can be placed online and it has no online customer service staff. Website: Summary: 1. Advanced Circuits : standard:total fee is $479 with 5-6 days express:total fee is around $1092 with 1-2days its service leave me a good expression, but its online quote is relatively inconvenient for you have to register and login in, then you can get a quote only the board but not the shipping information. 2. Imagineering: standard:total fee is $171 with 5-6 days express:total fee is around $372.5 with 1-2days *(the shipping charge is not included.) Its online service is relatively good, and its online quote is instant and convenient but without instant shipping quote. The email reply is short and going into certain details. 3. PCB International: standard:total fee is $253.65 with 8 days express:total fee is around $478.73 with 2-3 days Their email reply is fast . Its online quote is instant and convenient. 4. Pcbway: standard:total fee is $56 with 8-12 days express:total fee is around $110 with 4-8 days It is the most instant and convenient online quote service, which give me a deep impression. 5. ZHONG XIN HUA GROUP: standard:total fee is $100 with 9-12 days express:total fee is around $115 with 8-10 days There isn’t online quote, but its online customer and email services are instant and detailed. 6. The PCB Company Pty Ltd: standard:total fee is $278.96 with 2-3weeks for total time Express:total fee is $428.96 with 6-11days for total time This company give me a good impression. Although there is no online quote and service staff, the email reply is good. 7. Multi-cb: standard:board fee is $148 with 5 days build time. Express: board fee is $281 with 2 days build time I can not get the shipping price because the online quote only shows the shipping cost to Europe, no I never receive their email reply! The attitude is not good at all. 8. PCB-POOL: standard:total fee is $367 with 5 days build time Express: total fee is $1,105 with 1 day build I can not inform you the total time because the email reply only tell me the shipping cost. The order can be placed online,but I can not find the shipping cost online and they do not have online service staff. I hope it helps as I share this purchase experience to you. Also, if you have some other manufacturer resources, pls share it to us. Fri, 31 Oct 2014 03:45:24 GMT PCB Silk Screen changing Color after Reflow We are seeing some PCBs especially from foreign sources that exhibit silk screen color change after reflow? Has anyone else seen this lately? Thu, 30 Oct 2014 23:50:38 GMT Solder Bridging On SMD Pad for Nexlev Connector Help Needed. I face a solder bridging issue on solder mask define pad at edge only for nexlev connector . The pad design such as smd at four corner only. The bridging happen on signal to ground pin only. Current stencil we use 22 round with 6 mils step up for stencil and at the edge we use 20 round with 6 mils step up. So far we already check printing , pick and place and profile as well but don't why the bridging happen at edge on nexlev connector smd only. please help me ... Thu, 30 Oct 2014 23:46:20 GMT Solderability issues due to excessive nickel Hello, We are facing solderability issues on a particular lot of board. THe Nickel thickness measured with an XRF is around 400 U inches. Spec calls out for 130 u inches Nickel and 3 - 5 U inches gold over it. Assuming there is no porosity on the gold. Is there any explanation as to why we are seeing solder wetting issues? Profile seems to be running at good peak and TAL. Running Lead free SAC 305. THanks! Thu, 30 Oct 2014 21:55:13 GMT Agilent SJ5000 AOI Password request I purchased this AOI at an auction, and the passwords were not included. Does anyone know the default passwords for this machine? Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:20:29 GMT Looking for some help with Samtec SEAM-GP mounting Hello, I am looking into the use of a Samtec SEAM-50-02.0-L-10-2-A-GP-K-TR on a board. Is anyone around who has experience with this component? Specifically, we are looking for design advice for stenciling and soldering. The component is a solder charge component and the pads for this component are 25 mils (50 mil pitch). The recommended stencil opening is 35 mils in a 6 mil thick stencil. The problem is we may need to use a 5 mil stencil based on other components on the board (which could necessitate making the stencil openings even wider to get as much solder to the charges). Based on your experience, does this component really need to be overpasted as much as is recommended? Also, if anyone has had to use a 5 mil stencil, how much wider would you make the apertures? Finally, does anyone have any additional tips for using this component? I appreciate any help you can offer. Related Links: Spec: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Catalog: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Recommended footprints: <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:18:34 GMT NPM maintenance mode --- Panasonic NPM-W Modular Placement Machine Looking for a maintenance mode on the NPM-W where I can isolate and fire different components. For example if I suspected a bad motor is there a way to just attempt to fire that. Any advise? Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:08:35 GMT Cencorp TR1000 Router intermittently freezing up We have a Cencorp TR1000 Router that has been recently having problems. Frequently it will freeze up. This usually happens after running it for awhile. Sometimes the machine and computer both freeze up. When this occurs we have to completely shut down the machine and restart it. Other times the machine just errors out. When you go to move the servo and look at the current position of x and y it just shows all asterisks. When this happens the router will not move at all. The error we are getting is: Router moved failed Not within deadband A couple of times the router locked up and the bit was still spinning. I was just wondering if anybody has experienced this issue and might know the cause. Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:00:27 GMT UNIVERSAL 6772A Dip Machine --- lost communication Greetings, We have a very old IC insertion machine mentioned in the subject line. The system seems to have lost all communication between the computer and the machine. The connections between them are good and I do not see any signs of electrical damage. The computer screen comes up as a garbled mess when trying to run it. We have tried reloading the program with no success. Is there anything specific I should look for to try and figure out the problem? Any help is appreciated... Thanks, Joe Wed, 29 Oct 2014 08:07:15 GMT Requesting thermo-elastic Epoxy/E-glass laminate/prepreg material properties for various Fibreglass cloth styles As stated in the title I would like to know the thermo-elastic material properties, most preferably the E-modulus and CTE in x- and y-direction, for Epoxy/E-glass laminates and/or prepregs for various fibreglass cloth styles. Datasheets only give rough average estimates, usually for 50% resin count. For the CTE this would be (for Nelco N4000 6FC) be 12-15 ppm/K in x and y. However, the difference between a thin 2 mil laminate with high resin content and 106 Glassfibre cloth this value skyrockets to ~30 ppm/K. For really thick 62 mil laminate with 7xxx glass fibre cloths with low resin content, the CTE drops to around 10,5 ppm/K. I'm looking for some documentation that has these thermo-elastic values for specific fibreglass cloths (pref. 106, 1080, 2113, 2114, 7628), lam/pp thicknesses, resin or fiber volume content. The type of manufacture does not matter much. A bonus would also be information about C-stage prepregs. I need this information to calculate PCB warpage by using the classical laminate theory. Could anyone help me with finding this information? Kind regards, Julian Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:17:45 GMT Panasonic Panasert SPPV solder paste screen printer --- need password Level #1 Hi everyone, hope you can help me with this machine I bought used and after it is set up , it runs good, home position. I can click the tab Start, and Setup. But I can't click the tab I/O , edit or system. Because, I think I can't log in the Level 1, it is required pass word. Please any one know about this. The pass word is from Panasert or from old customer. it is also when I switch the hard drive # 2 it ask pass word of level 3. thank you Sony Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:18:41 GMT Wave Solder Issues --- Hole Fill We are having an intermittent issue with a certain board on our wave solder line, machine is a Vitronics 6922 Delta Wave, leaded process. There are 2 fuse holders on one edge of the board that are not getting solder all the way thru the barrel every time. Any way I have tried increasing the flux pressure(spray fluxer), slowed down the speed, (board temp is O/A 200F) at which the board goes thru the solder, turned board in different directions which was partially successful except we started seeing some bridging on a different part, we have increased the solder wave, it also was partially successful, but we were also flooding too many boards. I have tried to upload a picture, but am unable to SMT net keeps coming up with an error. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:47:49 GMT Machine Washable Labels --- withstand reflow solder and machine wash cycle Does anyone have any experience with labels capable for withstanding both re-flow and machine wash cycle? We've tried a few different materials and the ones that make it threw re-flow wash off and the ones that make it threw was tend to melt in re-flow. Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:50:24 GMT Solder buildup inside Relow Oven --- small solder balls on panels Our reflow oven builds solder on one specific panel type. It will have solder buildup inside the oven. We then end up with small solder balls on our panels. We think it may be the solder paste, the screen printer is leaving a clean wipe under the panels. Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:35:33 GMT Destacker will not separate 1mm thick boards My UIC destacker does fine with 2mm thick boards. However, I have to hand feed the 1mm thick boards. I have seen vacuum board placers for small boards but not for large boards. I need to get a solution for 24" x and 16" y boards that are only 1 mm thick. Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:27:28 GMT Wrong Parts Loaded......again -- Part Verification System Hello everyone. I'm looking for input on everyone's PVS (part verification system). At our facility we have a a straight forward, low tech verification system. Feeder files are exported from our equipment software to excel with columns containing Feeder Location>Designator>Part Number>Alternate. 2D labels are placed on all slots of the machine, operator scans slot, scans reel with unique material ID. Green light if it's good, red light if it's bad. Our software cannot lock out a machine if there is an incorrect scan. One operator does all the verification. Once in production our in house PVS goes into "Run Mode" where it allows verification for splice scans, but will not accept a material ID that has already been scanned into the PVS. We still have operators scan slot, verify reel, load into wrong slot. It's a challenging task but is there anyone with some suggestions that can reduce this mistake? I'm told double verification will not work. First article is out of the question. What's everyone else doing? Thanks! Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:26:56 GMT Does anyone use PT200, PanaCIM, auto changeover, CM402, CM602, CM212 machines here? Just curious. We use these machines and software in our facility and I am looking for others that ideas can be bounced off of when needed....and trust me, we need it frequently. Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:47:48 GMT Universal GSM 2 --- Timeout waiting for nozzle changer vacuum buildup Got a failure while starting up our GSM, and hoping you guys have an easy fix that we're not seeing. We're getting a Timeout waiting for nozzle changer vacuum buildup. It seems to be occurring on head 2, during nozzle change. We've reseated all of the nozzles, and redone the nozzle inventory (as we found that it was incorrect). We were able to get head 1 to change it's nozzles after fixing this, but, head 2 doesn't want to change. There is no obvious air leak that we can detect; the changer does pop up for the change. Any thoughts as to things we should check? Thanks, ..rob Thu, 23 Oct 2014 09:40:31 GMT PCB edge connector --- part recommendation im designing a circuit that will require the use of a edge connector so it can connect to another circuit. i need to do this so i can get both micro controllers communicating i have done a bit of research and am thinking about using a pcb manufacture site but dont know how to do this what software will i need to draw the circuit and should a use a common edge connector like a pci one from a computer ? what about doing the edge connector on the pcb like size , depth ect i have found some on ebay // note: a bit too big for my project// link = <a class=roll href="" target="_blank"> </a> Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:44:41 GMT Black Tar on ENIG --- it's NOT "black pad" I have seen a couple of references to Black Tar, Not Black Pad. Apparently, it occurs only on the solder side of PTH's after wave solder and primarily on the edges of the land. It is characterized by a black coloration (Not Ni corrosion?) and non-wetting. The component side does not exhibit any problems. Except for a couple of references in the NPL Solder Defects database, I haven't been able to find any info. Anyone have any input? Thanks, Rick Tue, 21 Oct 2014 22:25:35 GMT