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Opinions about AOI Machines

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Hi all, I'm going to purchase a new AOI machine, and I ... - Jan 17, 2006 by Sergio  

#39135

Opinions about AOI Machines | 17 January, 2006

Hi all, I'm going to purchase a new AOI machine, and I would like somebody to tell me his opinion about them. I have three to choose: Omron, YESTech YTV1000 and Marantz M22XDL 460. All of them are desktop. Anybody could tell me about them? Which is better, more accurate?

Thanks.

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y not

#39183

Opinions about AOI Machines | 18 January, 2006

Opinions are like a A holes....everybody has one. Make sure to include Mirtec in your tabletop AOI evaluation.

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#39198

Opinions about AOI Machines | 19 January, 2006

Good day,

I worked with Maratnz some time ago. My own opinion is that this is limited machine with limited functions. Main disadvantages are:

- Rather costly, something about 100 KEUR per table top machine; - 2D scanning system (direct light module with oblique light module); - Filtered image processing is the core of Marantz inspection principle, but you have to spend a lot of time for proper filter adjustment; - Skips open joints due to 2D scanning system - Unable to read component codes made by laser even using special laser filter; - Unable to inspect wrapped boards, machine gives a lot of failure alarms during wrapped board inspection; - Machine adjustment takes a lot of time. I think that even two days are not enough to setup new product; - Software bugs, machine hanged up without explainable reason; - MAC OS

BR, Pavel

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Juan

#39270

Opinions about AOI Machines | 23 January, 2006

Need more info..

SMT only inspection? SMT/TH inspection? Solderability inspecting? OCR/OVT inspecting? (reading letters and number) Lots of alternate parts? Established database driven programming software? (Circuit CAM, Flexa, Assembly Expert, CIMBridge etc..) Is your current goal to contain defects or optimize process?

These questions are crucial for attain the right tool for the job.

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DD

#39591

Opinions about AOI Machines | 9 February, 2006

Hi Pavel!

Can you tell me which model of the Marantz AOI are you using? And which MacOS version?

Best regads

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#39593

Opinions about AOI Machines | 9 February, 2006

Good afternoon,

I had experience with Marantz M22XDL 460, also I had a lot of issues with this machine. I�m afraid I can�t remember MAC OS version.

BR, Pavel

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#39661

Opinions about AOI Machines | 13 February, 2006

The best way to compare is ask each machine company to bring their machine in for a demo. Since they are bench-top machines, they are easy to transport. Pick one of your boards for them to run. Don't send any board data ahead of time. When they come in, show them the board and give them the data then. Be sure to have 20 or so of this board. Also, have one board containing all of the defects you normally get. After they program the "golden" board, run the remaining 19 or so to de-bug the program. Then introduce the board with defects. See which machine finds them all. It is also a good test to run the same board over and over again to see which machine gives more consistent results. A good machine will give exact same results over repeated inspections of the same board. Do the same with the defect-induced board to see which machine finds the defects consistently. Use these same boards with each company's machine. Be sure make the defects on the board look like they do in the real world. A bad example of an artificially induced defect is a lifted lead. Taking a soldering iron to a good board to lift a lead is not good practice. It in no way looks like the defect off the line. Or, taking a solder sucker to a location to remove solder to detect insufficient solder, not good. The best method is to induce your defects at pre-reflow, so they look like what occurs off your equipment.

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Rob

#39682

Opinions about AOI Machines | 14 February, 2006

Pete's advice is spot on - you need to do this.

We did roughly the same thing, and the known defect board caught a few out - especially one manufacturer that lowered all of the fault thresholds to pass the previous defect free boards (we didn't tell them about the known defect board - we just put it on as the last board).

By far the best we found for fault finding & in production was MVP, but it was also one of the hardest to program. We put around 2M placements through it and the only failures were faulty components (memory that wouldn't program). We didn't get one return from the customer either.

However that was the inline system (Supra), I have no experience of their desktop machines.

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dougs

#39685

Opinions about AOI Machines | 14 February, 2006

we are using MVP's desktop, it uses the same software as the inline machine and is great at finding faults, we place down to 16thou pitch and 0402 and if it's set up properly it won't miss a thing, but i agree it's difficult to program. but then you only get out what you put in with AOI machines.

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tr

#39719

Opinions about AOI Machines | 15 February, 2006

All I can say is YESTECH: most bang for the buck!!!! We have both the 1000 and 2000

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Mity-C

#39818

Opinions about AOI Machines | 20 February, 2006

We are using 5 Mirtec's. Easy to program and debug. 1 in SMT. 1 in Lead Free and 1 in Thru Hole. I can't comment on the Yestech but we have had increadibly good luck with the Mirtec's

With AOI's the proof is in the pudding. Arrange a Demo with your own boards. Bug one to see if the sytem picks up the bugs. This will give you a chance to program then evaluate the machine performance.

Good Luck

Chris

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#40009

Opinions about AOI Machines | 24 February, 2006

We just installed 2 YESTech 2050's for our 2 lines and I'm extremely happy with them. Our machines are setup inline post reflow w/ the capability of diverting good/bad boards utilizing Nutek's t-type turn unit. Of course, we all know that the object of the process game is to have minimal (zero) defects, but routing boards respectively is still cool. Their new F1 is suppose to be faster.

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Constructor

#40053

Opinions about AOI Machines | 28 February, 2006

You had NO experience! You saw only M22XCL-350 and did not work with it! Br-r

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Happy AOI user

#40054

Opinions about AOI Machines | 28 February, 2006

#40060

Opinions about AOI Machines | 28 February, 2006

I'm throwing in with Yestech also. Nice to program, very little fuss, low maintanence, all good. I have no negatives about these machines.

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Joe S.

#40157

Opinions about AOI Machines | 3 March, 2006

I agree! We have a 2000 and 1000 table top.

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Steveo

#40364

Opinions about AOI Machines | 12 March, 2006

With any AOI machine, it will only be successful if your programmer is interested in getting it to run well.

It is not rocket science, but if you want low false calls you need to invest time and energy into programming, especially if you have a high mix of product, or high variability in your process.

I prefer Omron for the colour highlight method. The rest are all grey scale. If you are looking at Omron, go for the pixel counting machine rather than the pattern matching one.

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Pavel Murtishev

#40400

Opinions about AOI Machines | 14 March, 2006

Good day,

Probably i mixed up the model numbers. Nevertheless, my own opinion obout Marantz AOI series will always remain negative due to facts mentioned above.

P.S. I suspect that you are PetroInTrade sales representative. Am I right?

BR, Pavel

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Jschafer

#40482

Opinions about AOI Machines | 16 March, 2006

We have 3 Omron machines here. Of those, we have 2 that are desktop. I would also recommend using teh pixel counting machine over teh pattern matching one. It is easy to program and very repeatable. You can inspect as much or as little as you choose, but the programmer must be disciplined. The Omron equipment is very reliable and repeatable....but I would send sample boards to each company and have them perform the tests including cycle time, false failures, and detection capabilities.

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Jschafer

#40483

Opinions about AOI Machines | 16 March, 2006

We have 3 Omron machines here. Of those, we have 2 that are desktop. I would also recommend using teh pixel counting machine over teh pattern matching one. It is easy to program and very repeatable. You can inspect as much or as little as you choose, but the programmer must be disciplined. The Omron equipment is very reliable and repeatable....but I would send sample boards to each company and have them perform the tests including cycle time, false failures, and detection capabilities.

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raffo

#40953

Opinions about AOI Machines | 13 April, 2006

Hi!

Pavel,are you in Russia?

Since 1994 Marantz sold more than 3300 machines wourldwide. How was it possible if the machine is so bad???

I am wondering how is possible that you know and that you work on the the Marantz AOI model M22XDL 460 in Russia!? It's sold legall one machine from the model M22XDL460 to this moment in Russia. Pavel, could you answer?

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#40975

Opinions about AOI Machines | 14 April, 2006

Good afternoon,

I saw Matantz AOI machine in work more than year ago, I forgot and mixed up model numbers. I�m sorry for this mistake. Probably that was smaller brother of M22XDL 460. Model I saw had real disadvantages mentioned above. Nevertheless, my own opinion is only my own opinion and nothing more.

BR, Pavel

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SD

#41135

Opinions about AOI Machines | 21 April, 2006

I've been using an Omrom machine for over 5 years now. I have mixed feelings about it. It has paid for itself many times over, but it needs constant tweaking. Constant tweaking is something I believe all AOI machines need, but the way our system works aggravates the problem. It was a $250k machine at the time- top of the Omron line.

Tech support is very good, providing you can get a hold of the *one* guy that does it well. If he's on vacation, you're out of luck until he gets back.

We visited Omron in Chicago and spent a week there with our board- yes, board- 10 up panel with 26 components per panel, programming and performing the acceptance test. Looking back, I would have visited their customer sites and picked the brains of the people who have to keep the equipment running. Their trainer was a whiz at getting things started, but he doesn't have to deal with all the odd situations that occur during production in thousands and hundreds of thousands.

Even after all these years, after I and another engineer have tweaked the machine, an occasional escapee will occur. A default that is obvious, but no amount of tweaking could cause to fail without raising the false call level to an unworkable situation. 26 components, 5 years later and it still needs tweaked.

The most irritating aspect of the machine is the image recognition. You can teach a component, pad and all down to thousandths of an inch. Yet, the image recognition software might mistakingly read the top of the electrode on the upper end of the component as the lower end pad and completely shift the location of the inspection area. Drag the window to where it belongs and pass with flying colors. I will never understand why the blasted thing allows for the pad layout to shift more than a few mils. I've seen it shift the pads by an entire 0805 component.

The one other aspect of the machine that I find irritating is the way it "ANDs" or "ORs" conditions. It will pass or fail a certain characteristic based on and conditions or 'or' conditions. There are times when 1 of the 'ands' will fail miserably, but the other will pass with flying colors. Get the passing one to fail and the one that failed now passes. Unexplainably irritating when the value is being compared to a max! (a<=100 HUH?!)

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#41259

Opinions about AOI Machines | 28 April, 2006

thanks all for your opinion. As someone said, Opinions are as holes, and colours... I've finally choosen the Marantz. I saw it working, and I liked it. I think its better MAC than windows for working with images, and the truth is that I know more companies (near me) which own Marantz machines than the other two.

Thanks again.

Sergio.

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Professor knowitall

#41260

Opinions about AOI Machines | 28 April, 2006

Do you like apples? Yes? Marantz sucks. How do you like them apples?

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timmytran

#46852

Cyber Optics AOI machines | 19 January, 2007

Do you guys have exprienced programming on this aoi machines!!! please give me some advices about how to program!!!!

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