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Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII

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Hello, we are a low volume high mixed CM looking for a new a... - Dec 15, 2005 by

spam master larry? ... - Jul 10, 2006 by

Manyhats

#38513

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 15 December, 2005

Hello, we are a low volume high mixed CM looking for a new addition to our SMT depot. We are currently running 2 Mydata TP-11 Hydra and feel that this can not meet our 06' forcast and current builds. I need to make a decision whether to go with the SM320 or the 8 headed Opal. Anyone out there have any suggestion on witch is the better path? I believe both machine are quite similar, the only huge difference is the large infrastructure and support that Assembleon has that Dynatech does not have, other then that i think both are very close. does anyone know any down falls on each machine? please help...

Thank you David

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Rob

#38518

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 16 December, 2005

I know that you were very specific in your email about your choices, but have you not thought of adding a faster Mydata? You would negate the learning curve on operations & maintenance, have spare feeders, & be able to transfer programs over.

Regarding the two you mentioned, the Assembleon can take slightly larger boards (460 x440 against 460 x 400), and the Samsung has more potential feeder locations (120 - 90).

Speedwise they are roughly the same, although the Samsung may shade it. However the Opal should be spot on as it has been evolving for a very long time now.

It comes down to who will give you the best deal (support, response times, training, feeders, nozzles etc) and who has the lowest cost of ownership in reality (not in the world of Juki!).

If it was my personal money I'd go with a baby Fuji, or a Universal. Grant should be able to tell you what the transistion from Mydata to Fuji NXT is like, as he recently went down that path - and it was HIS money.

Good luck,

Rob.

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Csabee

#38548

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 16 December, 2005

I think the Samsung SM320 is quite good machine..But I suggest that must assembly feeder cover to the feeder trolleys, because without that the tape feeders are not safe for the heads. Feeders should broke the head.

chip components wrong light setting and little dirty noozle should generate many errors - Machine recognize, accept & mount Component without real pick up of component.

Overall I think the Samsung SM320's MMI PROGRAM very simple & intelligent. Easy to learn it. And Teaching method is also very simple.

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manyhats

#38559

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 17 December, 2005

Rob, Thanks for the feedback,we've been running Mydata since 95' and within those 10 years I think we might have seen enough from them. Granted our machine is still in tip top shape we just plan to get something a little more faster and cheaper. Mydata is a great machine it just cost so much to support. I think everything you buy for that thing is a rip off... Parts and service are driven through the roof. I about Samsung having 120 feeder count vs Opal 100; I think this is quite and difference dont you?

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manyhats

#38560

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 17 December, 2005

Hi, it seems like you have some experience with the SM320... How do you feel about the reliability, and consistency of it? does it generate alot of error on a run? and what do you mean about feeders breaking the head? Also you're telling me that this machine will think a piece of dust on the nozzle is a component and actually place it? That makes me think shouldn't the Z axis have a placement sensor to recognize that there is something between the tip of the nozzle and board within specified tolerence.

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Csabee

#38572

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 17 December, 2005

Samsung SM320 don't have sensor for recognizing component. Only using Fly&Fix camera. In first time the korean samsung service engineer advised me (3,7light settings for chips and the machine generated many dumps, sometimes 50 or more per day. But now with (Side:9&Outer:5 light settings machine working perfectly) 2.- Our machines we received without safety Feeder cover in summer. And in production 2 times happend that head went to feeders to pick up components and At time the used feeders contactor(locker) opened, effect: Boooom.... Head Broken, must change. (There is a feeder sensor for detecting unlocked feeder, but I think it's no enough) I advice must check the new machine have safety feeder cover. But Yes, SM320 seems reliable (for it's price..I rather like Siemens, Panasonic but much more expensive) And other think about errors..This week two machine died.. We had many emergency electric shut downs in the factory. It maybe caused the machines computer mainboard panel. (2 machine in 2 day, It is contingent?) If Factory don't have safety back up generator be carefull...

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RDR

#38623

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

I'm curious about the "large infrastructure" statement. Do you or anyone believe that the large infrastructure is better? Sometimes, I am not so sure. I actually rate Dynatechs service as some of the best I have had. (No, I do not work for Dynatech or receive benefit) I have found when I have used the very large companies that it can sometimes be frustrating because of so many different people that you work with, etc.. Of course I have also had this frustration with the small companies for the opposite reason, the same guy that doesn't know anything or is not available, etc...

In my opinion the size doesn't matter! Just curious about others thoughts on this.

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bobpan

#38624

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

Russ, I agree with you that size doesnt matter. As for service engineers, The way i see it....a polished turd is still a turd. When i see a field service engineer come in to work on equipment and he is dressed up.....9 times out of 10.....he couldnt replace a burned out bulb. Usually...the older 'scruffy' guy is the 'go to' guy.

my 2 cents....

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Rob

#38626

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

Also is it really better to go with a company that has 3 times as many engineers if none of them are anywhere near you?

Also Bigger companies tend to have an accountants view on spares holding (ie they wonder 'round like rainman muttering bad, very very bad)

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#38628

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

An equipment vendor that is serious about penetrating a market with the physical size of the US will not have a single support/service location. A large infrastructure in my mind means support offices on both coasts as well as something in the middle. If a vendor didn't have at least that, I wouldn't consider them as this would mean they are too cheap, not profitable or have too little of an install base.

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Rob

#38630

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

Hi Rick,

That is one theory and although valid is probably not something I'd go with.

There are 2 ways of going for a new market -

a) Carpet bomb it, by throwing huge resources into it and hoping to catch everything.

b) Starting in one area/state, understanding the customers in you new market & doing a really good job before replicating this in the next area/state.

I'd rather go with the second, as although it takes longer it fosters repeat business & allows you to make small mistakes instead of howlers.

Also I'd rather have a conversation on the phone with someone who knows what they are doing than have a visit from a nearby based numpty that shrugs & agrees it's broken.

Of course in the ideal world you'd be able to recruit the best and have them totally product familiar & ready to go on day one.

Then again, it's really annoying when there's a really good product available nearby & you can't get your hands on it...

Cheers, Rob

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#38638

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 21 December, 2005

Rob-

Most vendors do of course take your (B) route and that is fine. However I just don't think it's smart for a user to be an early adopter of a new vendor or a vendor that is just beginning to enter in the market. Let's face it....this isn't like being the first guy on the block to get the latest and greatest DVD player. This equipment is so vital to the profitability of a company that going with anything that doesn't have local support or at least a local pool of talent from which to draw from in case the machine goes down...is asking for real trouble down the road in my opinion.

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Cmiller

#38657

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 22 December, 2005

You may want to take a quick look at the tier one equipment suppliers. Universal and Fuji have some very competitive equipment, not sure about Panasonic and Siemens but they have to be trying to compete as well. We are low volume and never thought we could afford that type of equipment. Well we could, we bought a Universal line and the difference between it and the tier 2 machines is dramaitc-I have never been so happy with an SMT line in my life, Grant has said the same thing about Fuji's. Its worh a look, whatever you pick you will be using for a long time.

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Erik

#39321

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 26 January, 2006

We just bought a SM320 an will receive it next week. We had 3 days of user training this week and from my point of view it is a very good machine. Really easy to use and very fast and accurate. On our testboards we achieved *realistic* speeds of 10.000CPH (just normal Setup without multicomponentpick). The software is very easy to use and I liked it much more than all competitors we have looked at. We will start high volume production in the middle of next week then I can tell you more. If you have somemore questions just email me at eh at teonic dot com

Best Regards

Erik

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Robert Steltman

#39325

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 26 January, 2006

We are a contract manufacturer in South Africa and have been running with Samsung equipment since 1999. To date we have 8 machines running 18 hours a day and have had nothing but fantastic service from these machines. We started with the old CP30 machine way back then (still running) and currently have CP40's, 45 neo, CP60HP dual gantry 12 head machines. The SM3xx machines are the newest generation.What we have noticed over the years is the constant enhancement in every model. As far as backup is concerned, we support ourselves as Samsung offer complete service training at their facility in Korea. Two of us have been on this training and are able to deal with 99.9% of issues that arise. Their support via email / phone is good. We did not expect this as we are a small user of machines all things considered. All in all we are very happy with Samsung.

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manyhats

#40314

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 9 March, 2006

Erik

How do you like the machine? I also have bought a 320 now too... the machines are great i really think we made the right decision. the service is excellent, infact we have two in line at our facility. let me know how youre doing...

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Mike

#40403

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 14 March, 2006

Hello,

we run the machine since january and produced severalthousand boards. We are really happy. The machine is easy to use and runs very reliable. Support is also excellent.

Best Regards

Erik

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Larry

#42610

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 8 July, 2006

Samsung vs. Assembleon

We currently have both Samsung/Dynatech and Assembleon Equipment. We started with two Samsung machines but the support, flexibility, component range, accuracy and speed of their machines just wasn�t there. The difference between the two is almost everything, but most of all their support. Upon arrival at Assembl�on headquarters in Alpharetta the technical training supervisor has taken me for the facility tour. I would like to highlight some of the parts of that tour. At the beginning of the tour I have visited the training classrooms, each equipped with the different type of the machine and a set of terminals that were exact copies of the machine�s interface at each desk. Machine manuals for each machine were available for each student in the class, I would like to point out that, during the training at Samsung in Horsham we were using a cp20 manual on the cp50 machine because the original wasn�t available, furthermore; every instructor at Assembl�on is certified and trained to teach the operation of each particular unit, This is documented by diplomas for every teacher. Next I have visited the technical service support department, I was introduced to some of the tech support representatives who explained to me just how their 24/7 support works and how each call is directed to the right representative, especially how each call is always logged and machine problems can be searched by it�s serial number. Also, In addition I would like to mention that Philips has local tech support representatives in our area that if needed can visit our plant and no travel charges.. Next we walked over to a refurbish and service department where used machines were completely refurbished and sold under full factory warranty, also, this is where I�ve learned that feeder maintenance and repair is a part of the standard training. Right next door to the service department was the parts warehouse that stores about 15 million dollars worth of most critical parts for each machine; any part that could cause machine down time is kept in stock for immediate technical response. Having all these departments in one location/building enables the Assembl�on to be the leader in customer service. We currently own a total of 8 different machines from Assembleon. Topax, Emerald, LCS, Topaz XII, and MG1. SM320 looks good on paper, but Take it from someone that has both Samsung/Dynatech and Assembleon equipment, in my opinion Assembleon equipment is better in everyway.

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Loco

#42618

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 10 July, 2006

spam master larry?

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T-Bone

#44713

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 25 October, 2006

Must be Larry "White Boy" in Chi Town.

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KEN

#44732

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 26 October, 2006

Larry, I've got to throw the BS flag here.

"any part that could cause machine down time is kept in stock for immediate technical response."

I have over 20 machines from Assembleon. I've been involved with many "firsts" throughout the evolution of their platforms. I have Beta tested and offered our facility as a regional training center for Assembleon. I have worked with (assembleon) US Engineers and the Engineering team from Europe on current issues and improvement ideas. On top of that I have almost 20 years in the "biz".

No equipment manufacturer I have ever delt with can support your claim. None. I have had machines down for a 100 dollar sensor all the way up to a $25,000 image intensifier. There are situations that arise where a spare may not be available for overnight dielivery. With that said, Assembleon would be considered an industry leader in support with regards to spares, training and technical support.

The bottom line is you are going to buy what you think works for you. Are you a ford guy or a chevy guy? Then evey now and then I bump into a qwerky Dodge guy. Jeez. No accounting for taste!

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JD

#48234

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 7 March, 2007

Anymore comments on the Assembleon. I am in the midst of this same decision now. Throw in the Juki 2060 and we have a ballgame...

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Johnny

#48299

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 9 March, 2007

You can"t go wrong with Assembleon. I have been running a SMT line at my Co for 6 years with Gem machines and if I am paying for the line I would not even look at any other machine. Their tech support is first rate and even though we are a small Co they have bent over backwords to help us in times of need. I am sure there are other excellent machines out there but Assembleon is safe bet for a first class machine.

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Jason

#48307

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 10 March, 2007

Hi David, I selected the Assembleon Opal XII 8-head last year and I am very happy with that decision. The support is great! both 24/7 phone-line support and local service engineers(for So Cal. anyway). I bought 2 last year and 2 more this year with the $82K promotion price.

Jason

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Jason

#48308

Samsung SM320 VS Assembleon 8 head Opal XII | 10 March, 2007

Hi David, I selected the Assembleon Opal XII 8-head last year and I am very happy with that decision. The support is great! both 24/7 phone-line support and local service engineers(for So Cal. anyway). I bought 2 last year and 2 more this year with the $82K promotion price.

Jason

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