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Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines

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SJ

#38052

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 23 November, 2005

We're a U.S.-based small-medium sized CM and have a relatively high-mix of boards. We want to start a new machine platform starting from lower-end (slower) and later to higher-end (mass production) machines of the same brand (programs).

Other than Fuji, which has too much of a price premium, we're looking into: Philips Assembleon (starting from Topaz) Panasonic Siemens Dematic

We'd appreciate any experience/opinions on any of the three brands in the U.S. in terms of: - ease of programming - ease of set-up (we have boards from prototype to 10K per run) - customer services - cost of accessories (feeders) - overall value (price/performance)

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!! Sean

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#38065

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 23 November, 2005

Sean-

For what it's worth the Topaz X wins out over the Samsung for both service and support in the US as well as machine longevity. Samsung machines do not have a reputation of lasting all that long. Can't go wrong with a Japanese built machine in this industry. I'll take one of those over anything from any country.

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#38067

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 24 November, 2005

Good morning,

My advice is to put two Topaz-Xii in line. Machine programming is rather easy (with PPS and GPP that AssemleOn offers), but final teaching on machine is strongly required. If you want to prepare programs fully offline you�ll have to purchase AssembleOn offline component teaching station for vision data preparation. Setup is easy. If you have high-mix production just purchase additional carts and system for offline cart preparation. Change offline prepared carts and that�s all. Customer service is also good.

Look at AX-series for your future Topaz-Xii if you want mass production.

Disadvantages:

- Buggy software for offline programming; - Unreliable FNC. I can recommend to use SF heads + nozzle station instead of FNC. Speed is the same but reliability is higher.

Receive no benefits from AssembleOn.

BR, Pavel

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#38068

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 24 November, 2005

Hi,

There is a reason why the Fuji's have a price premium, as they work perfectly, all the time. I cannot believe how much better the Fuji machines are once we upgraded from MYDATA, and it was worth every cent.

If your main job is to put down components onto PCB's for customers, then you want to make sure you have machines that do that as accurately as possible, so you don't spend time trying to fix things.

It's something to consider.

Regards,

Grant

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#38074

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 24 November, 2005

I agree with Grant, I posted a reply to your other thread as well so wont go into detail on machines but if quality matters, go with a tier one supplier. Even Fuji is dropping thier prices. We picked Universal, I cant believe the difference in pick reliability and placement accuracy. The throughput is incredible when the machines actually run all the time!!! At this point I dont think the price difference in a used platform can compensate for the performance difference of the latest technology out there. The tier two suppliers cant match the up-time, pick reliability and placement accuracy and the prices are not much different.

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SJ

#38126

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 29 November, 2005

Just want to thank you all for the great advice on this thread!!

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r g

#38129

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 29 November, 2005

Hello, We have a 1999 vintage Philips Topaz for sale. This machine comes w/ 2 FES carts and approx. 30 feeders. The machine can be seen running at our facility in New Hampshire.

Please let me know if you are interested. Best Regards, Randy Gray rgray@fortunetechinc.com

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RDR

#38131

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 29 November, 2005

Hi Fastek, where does one find this data that supports or shows the claim "topaz X wins out over samsung for both service and support" for example.

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#38139

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 29 November, 2005

It's the opinion of someone who makes a living dealing with issues such as service, support, equipment longevity on all platforms and has been doing this for over 20 years. This includes extensive travel to Korea and Asia in general to gather first hand knowledge of how the equipment is built and what reps and users all over the world have to say about it. Hell...even the Koreans bad mouth Samsung. You obviously are a Samsung user or work for Dynatech so I understand your slant towards Samsung. Don't get me wrong I like Samsung machines but they don't compare to Yamaha/Assembleon in the areas I mention.....again in my opinion.

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RDR

#38144

Need Advice on SMT Pick&Place Machines | 30 November, 2005

Thanks Fastek, Appreciate the info. I value personal experience very highly. Although I currently use Samsung I wouldn't necessarily say I think they are the best. (I'm a Fuji guy at heart) I was just looking for info for possible future needs.

I don't work for Dynatech or Samsung by the way.

Russ

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