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Seeking advice on SMT placement machines

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Carsten

#37849

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 14 November, 2005

Hi, my name is Carsten from Germany. My company is looking for a pre-owned SMT placement machine to replace our old Dynapert MPS111. We are producing a lot of different PCBs with many different parts on it, and only small series of 100 to 1k pieces. The smallest parts are 603. So we think, that we need a machine with a lot of feeder places. Unfortunately we do not have a market-overview. We were offered a Siemens MS128, does anyone have experience with this machine? Are there any pitfalls we should know? What about the HP computer which is necessary for this machine, is it reliable? What is the normal price for the MS128? (We are planning a maximum of 20,000EUR) Can you recommend another, better machine?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Best regards, Carsten

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#37859

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 14 November, 2005

Base

#37864

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 15 November, 2005

Hey Carsten,

Couple of questions to get the picture clear about the type of machine you're looking for: - what's the most demanding package you'll be placing? (fine-pitch, BGA, large connectors, etc...) - how much feederbarspace do you hink you'll need - expecting any 0402 in the near future? or other more demanding components?

Looking at your budget of 20k I think you also may want to know about spare parts prices and availability, and about how easy it is to fix stuff when it breaks.

In other words, figure out what your budget is to run the machine for as long as you plan to keep it. (after all: we all have once bought an 'attractive' used car and then spend twice it's purchase price on repairs and parts)

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Rob

#37865

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 15 November, 2005

Hi Carsten,

The MS128 was a good machine 10 years ago. Now it is more like a Trabant. Once you have decided on your requirements (& Base has given you a good basis to start from) start looking at your whole process too - does your oven & printer fulfil your requirements.

You may want to look to Manufacturers such as Mydata or Assemblion/Philips, or Juki/Zevatech in this price range.

Try Peter at: http://www.alternativesmt.co.uk - they have a German language website - they tend to be more expensive but do sell good quality machines.

Good luck,

Rob.

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#37889

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 16 November, 2005

Thanks for your help guys! No, I do not expect a Ferrari at this low budget, we are not contract manufacturers, but only producing our own devices in the area of industrial control and measurement. And we do not expect to have 402 parts in the near future. We do not build cell phones. ;-) We need a lot of feeder places to minimize initial costs when changing projects. This will happen often. When Rob says, MS128 _was_ a good machine 10 years ago, I am satisfied with that. And Base, you are right, the machine should be repairable as easy as possible, and spare parts should be available. The latter is the case with the MS128. We have an offer for a refurbished MS128 (price 20k EUR incl. transport/training) and this dealer has a lot of spare parts on stock. Conclusion: The technical features of the MS128 will satisfy our needs, even if it is only a Trabant. It should be a widely used machine, not an exotic one, regarding spare parts availability and repair know-how. This seems to be true with the MS128. So why not take this one?

Best regards, Carsten

BTH: Anyone interested in our old Dynapert MPS111? (LOL)

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Rob

#37891

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 16 November, 2005

Hi Carsten,

20,000 Euros is a LOT of money for an MS128. Make sure you get a lot of feeders, warranty and spare parts thrown in, and that there are no hidden extra costs.

We had 2 MS128s & 6 HS180s & they did a reasonable job & were easy to work on, however I was not sad to see them go.

Good luck,

Rob.

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#37892

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 16 November, 2005

Are feeders included? Otherwise, the MS 102/132 sell even for lower prices here in US. Add shipping and training and you get to the same result. Juki, Contact and Quad may fall in the same price range, but spare parts and service tech availability will be worse than on the Siemens machine. If you get feeders than it would be even better, if the feeders have the Lemosa connector. Stock up in consumables like nozzles, O-rings and pusher needles. Another HP computer would be nice to have. Not only as an external programming station, but for spare. The 362 computers were discontinued already 1995 and are difficult to find on the market. Programming is a bit odd, but you�ll get used to it. You should be getting the capability to create and convert at least the placement (BP) file on a Windows computer. Your 0603 components have to come in 4 mm pitched tape. Vacuum adjustment on these small components is a bit tricky to stay consistent.

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#38012

Seeking advice on SMT placement machines | 21 November, 2005

just wanted to thank you all for your assistance... Regards, Carsten

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