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Reflow Ovens

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Any suggestions as to which company provides the best reflow... - Oct 17, 2005 by

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TPM

#37175

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

Any suggestions as to which company provides the best reflow oven? Currently comparing a BTU, Heller, and Vitronics. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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???

#37176

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

Heller is my pick.....I have greatly soured on vitronics......my 2 cents worth.

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Rob

#37177

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

BTU have been around since the start of SMT, with ancient TRS14's still running today with no problems, and bucket loads of VIP's, Paragons & Pyramax's doing good service.

Wouldn't use anyhting else (Did like the new Vitronics-Soltec, but couldn't be sure of the longevity).

However it does depend on what size of oven you want & the budget you have, and on the support in your area.

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???

#37178

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

hahhaah...i think you hit it right on the nose....Rob....its funny some machines can run for 10-15 yrs with very little problems and others.....just dont....

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RDR

#37179

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

Why are you soured on Vitronics? I like them the best of all I've used including BTU, Speedline, conceptronics, Heller, etc...

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???

#37180

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

Since you asked......lots of binding problems....lots of heater over temp problems (which are easily wired out of the machine). Been to lots of places and almost never saw a heller oven down or being worked on (and seen lots of hellers). Like i said though......maybe we got ovens that were made on the last day of the quarter....hahaha....and it seems most problems start occuring about 6 or so months after warrenty ends....go figure.....hahaaha....and that leaves us to fix the problems.......i also heard xpm means no maintenence......hmmmmm....i dont buy that one....

This is just what i have seen. As Dave says, I have no affiliation with any of the above mentioned company's.

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Rob

#37181

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

I liked using them, but I prefered owning the BTU's. Had a nice Vitronics Soltec Deltawave though.

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#37183

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

BTU and Vitronics are probably the best names in the business. Heller is very cheaply built but they have a large following as well.

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ING

#37189

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

This is an excellent topic. We are currently regarding for a reflow oven. BTU seem to be good. I don't know the other companies. Why BTU and Vitronics seems to be the goodest? And about HELLER, any good/bad comments?

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ricardof

#37190

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

for sure it's an excelent topic, in Mexico we've used almost any brand in the market (Research, Heller, Electrovert, Rhem, Vitronics, Conceptronics, BTU) and after all those names, we could see that Vitronics is a good opton, good service, not too much knowledge required, long lasting heaters and blowers, easy to clean and excellent heat transfer.

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barryg.

#37196

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

We may also be in the market for an oven that will be cabable of doing lead free assemblies. I am assuming that this thread is based on ovens that will be capable of lead free. How many zones would you guys recommend for leadfree. I have heard of requirements for up to ten zone ovens? We currently have a 4 zone oven that we are evaluating to do some lead free, do you think it will be able to do this and what problems will we face?

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RDR

#37197

Reflow Ovens | 17 October, 2005

Lead Free profiles can be achieved on 4 zone ovens on relatively simple boards (I did this for a year). The 4 zones can be a bear to get right for a really optimum profile. Assemblies with significant Delta T designs can be nearly impossible with 4 zones however.

I recommend a min. of 5 zones(This is what we are currently using for leadfree), but would prefer 7 or more.

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Rob

#37202

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

It depends on a number of factors - including as Russ pointed out, complexity (sometimes you need to create very complex profiles if you have large BGAs and other such components, which require at least 7 heated zones), then you have size, required line speed, amount of space you have to fit it in, air & power capacity, required delta T (change in temp across a sample board), BUDGET.

Then you have all of the extras such as number of cooling zones (helps with joint formation), centre rail support, board tracking, ease of maintenance, quality & cost of support etc.

We found that the Pyramax from BTU & the MyReflow from V-S were the best for our requirements - but what was best for us would not necessarily be best for anyone else.

Hope that helps,

Rob.

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DannyJ

#37207

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

To the Heller question...

I have had a few minor bad experiences with Heller. On the 1800 series, redid the movable rail section, which required complete disassembly of the offload end of the oven. A little bit of forethought in design may have had that job a bit easier...

On a 1700 series, we had a standing order with Heller to replace cell fans. They sent us one, we'd swap with a known bad one and they'd send us another one, once they received the bad one. I thought they did a great job in offering us this setup at no cost to us, but why did they fail so much in the first place? That is the question... the main answer we received was 'design issue'.

As others have stated, I can attest to BTU and Vitronics as being good ovens. I have had great luck with both names and these are just my experiences with Heller.

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???

#37208

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

i am trying not to talk too bad about vitronics.....but i only put out a few problems we have had..........i quess every company has some issues but.......i see these xpm's everyday and everyday its something new....just my experiences.......

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killer1994

#37209

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

Heller, by far the best oven we have had, It has never been down and we've had it over 10 years now. The other two ovens we have are Quad and they are by far the worst piece of garbage ever put out on the market. Broken every other day. We have looked at vitronics, and I liked them, we have two of thier delta waves and have been rock solid in performance for us. Like the conveyer system also, but the heller has been the best equipment we have had. Nevr could understand how and oven can break so much, all they are supposed to do is sit there and heat. Not very complicated. some places over engineer the simplest items.

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???

#37210

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

The quad's are absolutely junk but to be fair to them....the name was just slapped on them.....they are actually a zcr product.....which the first version wasnt bad but when you got to the profile ovens.....wow.....what junk they were.....they are good enough to be a ship anchor and thats about it......

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ING

#37211

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

I can confirm that the QUAD Oven are any day broken. From what I red, BTU seems to be the brand to put our confidence in. So, no one talk about ELECTROVERT oven. Any experience with this brand?

And how can I choose between Vitronics and BTU? It seems to be an hard choice based on multiple experiences.

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#37215

Reflow Ovens | 18 October, 2005

At one time I could show you the spacing of the chain of an electrovert but the burn marks have dissapeared. The center support chain would wrap around and jam up and with boards in the oven.............. On that one for some reason we bought it with the middle three heaters not installed. And it was wired for I believe 230V but we ran it at 200V. So it took a long time to warm up.

Since then I've worked with BTU ovens. My biggest complaint about the newest ones is the air pressure that you can set is measured in inches of water column. No problem I thought I will just use that handy dandy little program that converts every unit to any other unit. And then found out it didn't have inches of water column. Just remembered another thing I didn't like about BTU. I was never able to make a new recipe from scratch that worked right. I would have to edit an existing one and "Save as". Both very very minor items.

Where I am now, we have a Heller. It seems like a very good oven as well and havn't had trouble with it.

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KEN

#37218

Reflow Ovens | 19 October, 2005

Lets talk some facts here.

I have 6 BTU VIP's. 29,000 combined run hours. Not one part replaced in 6 years of operation. NOT ONE across 6 sepearate machines!

I have had up to 6 Hellers at one time. Do you know why they have a life time warranty on their blowers? Because you're gonna need it!!! Give me a break. We cook blowers like they're going out of style. Same equipment cost, same "performance", not the same operating costs.

BTU is the clear winner in my factory.

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TPM

#37223

Reflow Ovens | 19 October, 2005

Thanks Ken! Your response was exactly what I was looking for. Is there anyway I could speak to you directly about this?

Thanks again

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dougs

#37225

Reflow Ovens | 19 October, 2005

Ken is right about the BTU VIP's, we have 2 both about 6 years old as well, i've been here 1 1/2 years and only replaced a 15V power supply on one of them, no other issues at all.

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URL

#37234

Reflow Ovens | 19 October, 2005

Wow, all this BTU talk brings back bad BTU memories. Yes, the VIPs are good ovens, but the TRS series and Paragons were bad. TRS had air amplifiers - nuff said, while the Paragons had long spell of bad motor bearings because of design issues. Never went back them since the Paragon model so I hope the Paramax series is better. I took a quick look at it last year and it still looked like it had the triple bearing alighnment issues the Paragons had.

Vitronics or Electroverts are my choices. Mostly because they have great delta-T characteristics yet incorporate a lot of maintenance friendly devices that'll make PMing it a breeze.

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KEN

#37236

Reflow Ovens | 19 October, 2005


Rob

#37238

Reflow Ovens | 20 October, 2005

One thing to look out for on the Pyramax's - these are engineered for a price - they are NOT VIP's. The VIP was a very expensive oven - built to be the best, whereas the Pyramax is built to be competitive.

Regarding the TRS14's, we inherited some of the first ever ones & they are were still running well when they went into storage this year - yes they used a lot of air, but they never gave any problems at all.

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Slaine

#37239

Reflow Ovens | 20 October, 2005

Ive a 5 zone BTU vip 90 thats about 12 years old, and just lately its been a pain, its needed justabout all the fans replacing, the belt has eaten away the drive sprockets (they were fine a month ago) and just lately the belt speed has started to vary a little. ive had newer btu ovens in the past and in general i like them. I think this one has just reached that point where everything starts to fail.

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???

#37242

Reflow Ovens | 20 October, 2005

i wish the new ones we purchased lasted 12 yrs before a failure!!!

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Say

#43598

Reflow Ovens | 26 August, 2006

Danny, with the Heller 1800 series oven, what is the standard oven profile for lead free. I am having some proble profiling boards with BGA. I am getting alot of voids. If you have a profile for a Heller 1800 nine zone, could you please send me a profile. I would really appreciate. Thanks

Say

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