Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Where's Earl Moon ?

I noticed that I no longer see Earl's name in the Thread, ... - May 07, 2000 by

armin

#4212

Where's Earl Moon ? | 7 May, 2000

I noticed that I no longer see Earl's name in the Thread, where's he gone?

just curious guys...

reply »

#4213

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 8 May, 2000

Armin: Earl decided to focus on something different, the DFM/CE-part of this game on other playgrounds. His announcement and the farewells can found in the archive.

I miss him too,

Wolfgang

reply »

#4214

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 8 May, 2000

Poor Nancy and Earl were getting something going too. It was sad to see all of that torn apart. Those poor kids.

reply »

Earl Moon

#4215

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 9 May, 2000

Armin, Wolfey, Dave, Jeff, and some others I remember well who have moved on too (way too many to count but all left unfufilled here),

I am back. No, just kidding. I still look in from time to time. All of you on the forum are great. I simply decided to get out of such a commercial enterprise exploiting my expertise with no return on my investment. Christ, look at this thing. It has ads everywhere, the thing is too complex to work efficiently, and who knows anyone anymore?

Just look at it. There are not nearly so many postings of much interest anymore (check the archives and the threads we used to create). Simply, there aren't many postings at all. Why don't you all go where the "big boys" play at IPC. I mean, real work gets done there, but not enough bare board stuff anymore, and it's pretty professional with none of this advertising crap.

I don't blame anyone for making money, but damn it takes so much time just to get on line here, if one wanted, and there's no satisfaction as before as feedback and real incentives to participate. Pretty much the same old questions and answers but no challenge. We really used to get into it. You all are professionals. You should be participating in a higher place.

As far as Nancy and me goes (thanks big Dave), I do regret us never having a chance to get together but in my dreams. Nancy, that shipboard romantic week we spent was very special to me. I hope it was as good for you, and what about our discussions about solder paste and plated through holes? Oh, where have you gone?

I do like where the newsletter has gone. I mean it is the most commercial invention I've seen since the Bud frogs, but it does have a feedback mechanism. Also, what about Cunli's brief appearance, I suppose to get his final check.

Again, you are all professionals supporting a mechanism hip deep in commercialism and so many contrived alliances you shouldn't support. This thing is akin to the old SMT International crap though I doubt it ever will approach what Nepcon has become.

Hell, life's too short for this stuff. Do what you all must as stay or move on. There's no ego any place that talks to technology and, certainly, none of you participate in the profits herein.

Thanks to a few of you I remember - remembering me. It used to be exciting and fun here. I can tell you it's more fun hanging with those not so commercially interested and with who listen to what is needed for us all to improve.

MoonMan

reply »

#4216

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 9 May, 2000

Hi Earl ... You movin' to Montana soon? Gonna be a dental floss tycoon, eh?

The adverts don't bug me near as much as the weekly "Duh, I've got (you choose): * Solder balls * Tomb stoned caps * Poor soldering with my NC flux

... question from the maroon that's either too lazy or been huffing too much dross dust to to look in the archive and look at the reams of answers stacked-up on verbatum duplictates of the same question.

I think those of us that keep responding to those questions are degrading the forum in our pathetic desire to see our name in print. Some questions aren't worthy of reponse, and may be I'm more guilty the next.

Ta Dave F

reply »

Earl Moon

#4217

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 10 May, 2000

Dave,

You're very right, as usual. Hell, I really don't mind the ads all that much either. They're actually kinda perty - like window dressing and all that. Also, I love for the powers to be to be making money, just not at my expense or yours. Judging from the recent group and questions/answers, however, does make me wonder who's buying all that product, as I see no signs of management or buying power participation. It's still all the "great grunts" answering what should be much better questions.

You're right about the inane drone (dull bee) syndrome as well. How many times must old, dead, and buried issues come up but to be answered by the same people wanting their names somehow associated with them? The archives, as you say, are ten times full of this stuff. Where are the hard questions and answers about real improvement and how to get management to see beyond their noses concerning who really makes the money for them?

Don't blame any of yourselves for participating. You Dave, and a few others I mentioned before, have done more for this forum than anyone could have thought possible. I too remember back over three years ago (long time in forum terms) being proud to see my name associated with yours, Cunli's, Steve's, Wayne's, Scott's, Brian's, Nancy's and so many others I miss getting down with over hotly debated, at times, important issues. Hell, our strings used to go on for miles and a lot of good came from it. I learned as much as I tried to give.

I tried, as many of you, to set a new tone every time I posted. I busted ass, as some of you, writing my ass off to get some "fresh meat" on the table. Jeez, during the short time I wrote articles and column installments, I invested more than 30 hours a month notwithstanding time spent participating in the forum. Once or twice a month I now look in to see gray fleshy like substances only being sniffed at on a rickety table in bad need of shoring up. I don't know about any of you, but I don't sniff anything gray let alone eat it off something falling down.

Hell, I've beat the crap out of this one. It's just that this forum used to be SOMETHING, and everyday it was a pleasure to see what you all had to say, and try to come up with some thought provoking way of looking at and answering some important questions concerning a vital technology. You all can get it back - only if you want and forum management starts spending more time with you, their cash cows, instead of seeking more glitz and "improved" all to hell forum trinkets and decorations.

When Cunli was here, I'd get a call or email every week seeking better forum ideas and showing interest in who really counts - all the contributors. The last months I spent here, I couldn't even get information concerning who was "hitting" my profile or any feedback on what I wrote.

We all look back at better days and think, at times, how did it come to this?

Earl Moon, a much happier MoonMan now at a new and improved Proof Of Design cut loose out here in the middle of Montana.

reply »

Nancy V

#4218

Re: Nancy takes her broken heart and leaves | 10 May, 2000

Life on the forum has just not been the same since the Earl left. Alas, I take my broken heart and bid adieu.

On a more serious note. I want to thank everyone on the forum for their help. While I did not ask a ton of questions, I found the archives a wealth of information for a newcomer like me. While this forum has its draw backs, it was easy to find and helped me a great deal. (Try to forgive me for such a comment Moon Man.) I am leaving this company to go into the more lucrative telecommunications field.

Maybe, some day our paths will cross again, Moon Man. Until then....

Nancy

reply »

aflewelling

#4219

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 10 May, 2000

Wow! What a month! No sooner do I arrive as the new manager of SMTnet at the beginning of April (BTW my name is Andy Flewelling) than I�m dropped smack into the middle of the Amazon/McGraw Hill OnBoard Forum design and implementation (which, by the way, we are all very excited about!). A week or so later one of my developers strikes off to seek fame and fortune at another company. And to top the month off I have Earl Moon, a well respected and sorely missed forum contributor, �flaming� my site! What will happen next?

We work hard here, really hard, believe me, to make this site work for you. Many of the components we�ve added have come from recommendations from you. We have some components in the pipeline that we think will really add a lot to the site�s value. I don�t want to give too much away, but the technology in one of the components starts with �streaming� and ends in �video.� The site has evolved and continues to evolve to meet your needs for information. But, in all honesty we rely on feedback from you on the value of each of site�s components, how they can be made more valuable and what additional components you would like to see us provide.

Make no mistake Earl, none of us here are competing with Bill Gates to be the wealthiest person in the U.S. Unlike with the IPC and other professional and trade organizations, for us there are no membership fees to fund the development and maintenance and enhancement of this site. Good, bad or indifferent, SMTnet relies on advertising and sponsorships. And, furthermore, they find value in the package of features we have put together here, for your benefit, as evidenced by their eagerness to advertise with us. It�s probably worth noting too that SMTnet and its advertisers exercise no editorial power over the content of these threads and messages. BTW, did you know that IPC advertises on this site, albeit indirectly, as a sponsor of the APEX show? Hey! And what do you know, the IPC forums and the content within them are not immune from criticism similar to that expressed in this thread. It seems novices� �dumb� questions know no borders or bounds.

And stats! Your observation suggesting �there aren�t many postings at all� prompted me to do some research. According to my research the number of postings peaked in September 1999 and has receded some. I then looked at the number of times our visitors used the search capability within the forum over the past 12 months. That figure has increased by over 400%. The conclusion I draw from this is that visitors are finding answers to their questions in messages previously posted to the forum.

It�s worth noting too that the Electronics Forum is only one component of SMTnet. As I�m sure you�re aware we also provide a career center, the PCBCE mart, a library of technical publications and other valuable information. According to traffic patterns monitored by an independent third party SMTnet.com is at or above the top 8% of sites visited world wide. IPC.org is 40,000 sites behind us. The collection of features on SMTnet is attractive for professionals with a range of interests in the electronics manufacture industry. BTW DaveF, thanks to this thread, within the next 24 hours we will change the posting form so that a contributor is prompted to use the search feature before posting a message. Thanks! With regard to content: this does seem to be a problem. What would you suggest we do to elevate the content of the messages? I�ll make a point of calling you and Earl within the next 48 hours to discuss this.

Finally, we made a few internal changes recently that have reduced the time it takes to bring up the home page, as well as other pages. I hope you�ve noticed! The previous figure of 15 to 20 seconds has been more than halved to 5 to 8 seconds. Are we happy with that? No way! And we don�t plan to stop there.

Earl, I can�t guarantee that all of your recommendations, or all of those of anyone else, will be implemented. But I can assure you, we welcome your suggests and your constructive criticism and, without question, your participation in our forums.

reply »

Earl Moon

#4220

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 10 May, 2000

Andy,

I have no bad feelings about this forum. I want more than most to see it succeed. We need a high technology capability to present exactly that. It ain't doing that anymore. You're appealing to the wrong person to promote you new positive thinking approach.

I've been down this road for well over twenty years and have resigned from participation, but you do have some bright, much more informed and talented people remaining - but for how long. You're going back to the minors my friend. When their, it's tough to get back to the bigs no matter how many advertisers pay good money for no audience.

As far as September 1999 goes, that was a hot month. What happened since is advertising, more advertising, and little support for those who support your advertising. I am part of the proof.

I do wish you the best. I have no doubt you got a good deal to turn around a rapidly becoming dull event. Nepcon and the SMT international, again, events/forums died horrible deaths, or are in their death throws.

I really don't want you folks to die as well and as badly. I and many others have put too much time and effort into this thing to let it go so easily, as I know you all started out to do.

Just let it go, or get with your "cash cows" as forum contributors. Improve their lot, and yours too will improve.

MoonMan

reply »

Armin

#4221

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 11 May, 2000

I would still say that SMTNET has helped a lot of SMT professionals including those veterans and newbies. The site is highly commendable as a medium for sharing technical knowledge, expertise,ideas and information on Surface Mount Technology wherein every bit of informations are FREE. This means that all those guys who are and were behind/responsible in making this thing to happen are commendable. May your race flourish and your life be prosperous. The new millenium needs guys like you. It is sad that some good guys/experts are leaving or have left the forum (in the likes of Cunli, Earl Moon, etc.) and what can we do but to thank them and wish them good luck. And to all that are still in the forum KEEP IT UP GUYS !!!!

ARMIN

reply »

Earl Moon

#4222

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 11 May, 2000

Hey folks,

I'm on your side, as I said many times in this string. To end it, from my point of view, I will offer the following diatribe with which I responded to one of you whom I respect very much - Dave F. This is my last say on the subject and I wish you all well without any emotional farwell crap.

Oh hell Dave,

I really just wanted to shake the paint can a bit myself after you added fuel to a very small spark that really has done nothing more than get the NEW GUY introduced and Nancy clearly stating she is leaving me for good (damn, another love lost on top of my love for all you great guys and the wonderful forum). Not being an intellectual or technical giant, or even type, maybe I just wanted to see my name in print again and try to recreate some of the "old fun". Certainly, I agree the old days and guys are gone, but that's no big deal, nor was it ever. It's just that I don't see their replacements coming out of the new crop of admiral strikers. (dropped out of the Naval Academy Prep School because I was dumb - BS, at low end of the scale, from ASU and C-130 naviguesser in VMR-353).

More than that, I like to see things get pushed to become better instead of constantly fighting fires. Additionally, it's just too damn dull on the forum but for what and where you constantly amaze with all that great stuff. That does bring up another point you made about most of it going over most people's heads - often mine.

What I'm saying is the forum has enormously more potential than currently is being, or probably ever will be, realized. I don't know many answers concerning what could be done better considering the subject matter. It too gets old and It's hard to find new stuff to talk about though there may be ways to make old stuff more exciting and appealing while searching for the next thing.

Some of those ways may be:

1) Attract fresh material by the forum's management extending itself a bit into the technical realm instead of so deeply into one so commercial. By that I mean, the powers have extended hands to attract advertising (fine with me - good for them) so why not use some of that money to buy a full time technical guru (not necessarily editor type) to bring back chunks of stuff for the forum to chew on - like the next great thing, or not. Get management involved in inciting riots on the forum, not on a regular basis of course.

2) Provide incentives to current and potential forum members, beyond seeing their names in print, as technical "prizes" (who knows what?) for digging deeper or to attract fresh meat from within, or out of, the technical community (hardly touched at all at this point) so heavier hitters get involved as higher level engineers, management, and purchasing types (the latter two are great targets). The IPC has a few of these that have no interest in the current forum even though many have left as well. Hell,remember that kid Jason Medarnach? He had a blast discovering and presenting his latest findings from within a plentifully endowed "R&D" toy shop. He delighted in his discoveries and presenting them to us all.

3) Instead of some of the advertisers just pay for space, have them present or provide their latest and best "free of commercialism." An example would be the IPC presenting some of its stuff outside its bureaucratic realm as new standards and guidelines formulations with invitations to our group to participate in their round robin testing and committees. Have Fuji show off their latest optics or MPM its little something extra gadget that betters DEK so a battle ensues in front of us - all without commercialism (BS I know).

4) Have a regularly presented reward for best, not most, postings on the forum and create new meat to chew on. The damn DFM/CE thing sure sunk to the bottom as it is now being bantered about everywhere, by everyone, without benefit of CE.

5) Who the hell knows, or cares, as long as it's fun based on a more serious undertone. It ain't fun though, and it might never have been but for the way the forum used to get down - or am I imagining that? I know it was not big deal, but it was fun though not nearly so much as landing hard enough to break a wing and engine (Pensacola flight school incident in which I was blamed and dropped for being just a bit too aggressive for the instructor and airplane - it was a heap anyway and too bad about my eyesight and aren't they supposed to catch that anyway before accepting anyone).

As for dental floss, I never listened to much but some light Stones and AC/DC rock and way too much Waylon Jennings (still do that). My imagination allowed me to interpret your comment as me eating the profits in my new Montana social club. Don't mean to be crude. I just turned out that way.

Damn, just when I was getting carried, or carted, away, old Dillard asks an interesting (not really) question about a test forum. Why the hell isn't number 6 above having forum management going after some of that stuff instead of turning the guy away as many others I addressed in number whatever (the fresh meat thing).

Dave, I do admire your talents, honesty, presentation manner and material, and all that shit. I'm still looking for a fire to fight, I guess, and this is such a small one compared with what the "real world" is about. It's like anything as it ain't no big deal until it's gone. I might be wishing I had had the guts, money, brains, or lack thereof, to have started a forum that works better. Maybe my new forum will be about the oldest subject - coming from out here in Montana.

Thank you all and keep on keeping on. You really have something in the forum but most of you don't know how to protect and improve it.

MoonMan

reply »

#4223

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 11 May, 2000

Andy: Welcome. Several points:

1 Be careful in your statistics quoting reverie, particularly on archives use. September was about the time of one of the server upgrades. As part of one of those changes, the previously outstanding, although sadly non-scaleable search tool was replaced with the pathetic, virtually useless search tool we have now. Even after Cliff�s valiant attempts at patching the more obvious failings, I still have a tough time finding even things that I wrote and know should be in the archives. As a result, I make more searches, because the thing works poorly, not because I'm trying to find more things. 2 Another point to watch ... Since Technet is an e-mail (usernet) forum, it's unclear that you site visit analogy is appropriate. There's 1700 members that receive 30 or so messages a day. 3 If the output of your box is faster, someone must be sucking it dry before it gets to my tube. I certainly don't notice a 2X improvement. 4 It's probably about time to move this thread to the admin corner. It appears that it has served its purpose.

Push on Dave F

reply »

#4224

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 12 May, 2000

Earl,

How are things? Thank you for returning, and hopefully staying. You've made many good suggestions on running the site. However, it required a lot of thinking and resources to get things done. I gave it a good try, and thank you for complementing my efforts, but it takes someone else to make SMTnet a better success. I myself will always be here to help and criticize, and hope you do the same. It will most likely be a mistake if you or I tried to start another "SMTnet"; it is not easy.

By the way, I was not paid for whatever I may or may not have done for SMTnet since I left last September. I want SMTnet, both as a business and as a solution to SMTneters, to succeed.

Best regards, Cunli

reply »

Boca

#4225

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 16 May, 2000

Dave, what's wrong with snorting dross, it's great for the sinuses. What's the dental floss thing? (I lack imagination that MM has)

I also appreciate the postings of the Moonster, Dave, and all the rest.

Just wanted to ask a couple of inane questions, and OF COURSE see my name in print.

Boca

reply »

Michael Parker

#4226

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 16 May, 2000

Boca- I can enlighten you on the dental floss thing, but first you must provide a $40 bill to satisfy the insatiable Humm sisters. Beyond that, you gotta raise some bees, grab some trusty zircon encrusted tweezers (any self respecting SMTer would only have the best), and ride your pygmy pony over to Montana. The rest comes, naturally. Et Tu, DaveF?

Yippee Ty Yo Ty Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply »

#4227

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 16 May, 2000

YES!!!!! We have a winner, ladies and gentlemens. The prize is a round of drinks for you and the grrrrrls. Bud, you have got to be a bit teched to dig-up that obscure reference.

Hello, teenage America, My name is Suzy Creemcheese, I'm Suzy Creemcheese because I've never worn fake eyelashes in my whole life And I never made it on surfing set And I never made it on beatnik set And I couldn't cut the groupie set either And...Um Actually I really fucked up in Europe. ( Hrrrrrrrrrr ) Now that I've done it all over and Nobody else will accept me I've come home to my Mothers

For closure ... a tune from an average Francesco Zappa album check the link ...

reply »

#4228

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 16 May, 2000

D: I�d say you�re correct about dross cleaning the sinuses, but it really get�s ya dizzy up over the long term and then it makes ya slobber.

The dental floss thing is just a lyrical thing from a wasted youtt (as Danny Devito said in "My Cousin Vinnie") � see MP below.

Man you scare me!!! You want to see your name in print � and then you use "Boca"!!!! But then again, if you know who you are it�s good , even though others don�t

Bye

reply »

#4229

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Darn, thought time had slipped back a year or two and Moonman was back around, giving us all the good info, latest tech stuff, etc.

But, then I woke up and found we are really in 2000 and nothing seems to change.

Take care

Wayne

reply »

Earl Moon

#4230

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Well Dave,

You've done it again. Where do you come, no dig up this stuff. Not at all offended about the Montana floss crap, while sitting on my Montana porch with a baudacious set of my own sitting nearby attached to what I cherish most - a Nancy look alike, I see clearly now what a Purdue education and listening to such diatribe does to someone. You're the best! It's hard to imagine how you can answer most questions posed, but it's even more difficult to imagine you actually asking a question (I'm sure it's in the archives, but I've never seen you do that before). Name in print thing?

Now Waylon Jennings sings about and makes pronouncements about what's real and what it's all about. SMT isn't part of that and floss certainly isn't. Jeez, give us all a break. Michael, I am suprised at you as well - Zappa?

Though amazingly astute technically, historically and, probably, intellectually (tough words for me to say but vaguely understand), you do amaze as one who would find a SET (does anyone really need one) such as SMT in which to thrive, apparently. How'd that happen? I mean, were you a history or art major?

For me, I've found much other than seeking a SET but for that which is round, firm, and always beautiful. I still prefer doing it the old fashioned way without searching for myself in another or group made up of numbers thereof.

For all of you having "joined" a group continually and asking and answering mostly INANE questions I do wish you well. For those of you who ask/answer technically challenging questions and who lead, well, let us just say Where the hell are you? Oh yes, making money from advertising, at your expense, so you can serve them more INANE crap.

Earl Moon

reply »

Michael Parker

#4231

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Earl- your legacy lives on

Dave- About those drinks- Just get me wasted and your halfway there, cuz' if my minds tore up................

I'm in Fremont, where are you?

Enough of the nostalgia - it's been a long time since anyone besides my runnin' partners could recite anything from the Mothers. Studebaker Hawk must have been in your lineage.

e-mail me direct if you can. I don't want to waste the forum with personals.

mparker@unigen.com

reply »

#4232

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Hey, everybody, I'm Bobby Brown, the cutest little........

But seriously, Earl, I'm sorry you're finding the forums are no longer a resource you can utilize, but for the rest of us that are just getting their feet wet in this biz, it's still providing some answers as well as the occasional humorous interlude.

Watch out where the huskies go......

reply »

#4233

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Hey, everybody, I'm Bobby Brown, the cutest little........

But seriously, Earl, I'm sorry you're finding the forums are no longer a resource you can utilize, but for the rest of us that are just getting their feet wet in this biz, it's still providing some answers as well as the occasional humorous interlude.

Watch out where the huskies go......

reply »

Earl Moon

#4234

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

Steve,

Great to see from you again, as so very many times before? New folks always welcome on the forum. You and Dave are management's big hope for success to attract more advertising. Can't wait to see what you have to ask Mr. Harper, if that happens in my lifetime. By the way, what will dave ask, and so many others concerning a handbook not quite up to Juran standards - but then what is?

I note in your postings so much technological promise. Can't wait to see more SMT stuff and humor. As Dave says, this is all about fun.

Enjoy,

MoonMan

reply »

Earl Moon

#4235

Re: Where's Earl Moon ? | 17 May, 2000

OK folks, enough. Thanks for a reality check - though a bit Zappa, Waylon, or whatever like in the year 2000 but who's counting - Wayne? (good to see from you again concerning such a vital topic). The real question should be: Where'd you go? You done good back when.

I was out to SET a record for a continuous string on a particular subject, though mindless, meaningless, and without true content as Seinfeld comes to mind but not to interest. The opportunity availed itself thanks to a very kindly Armin (how'd it turn out for such a simple, kindly question?) Could you have ever imagined this?

Mission accomplished (how would anyone know without consulting archives that cannot be consulted) but little else, as it seems the forum can survive on most anything - even as an uninteresting, meaningless subject as where I've gone. Also, Nancy, I offer my true appoligies to such a class lady.

I know you need this thing, but where are the MLB, HASL, gold, solderability, thermal, testing, analysis, evaluation, reduced pad size for reliability, qualification, SPC, TQM, HAST, HALT, and 3400 I/O CCGA questions - notwithstanding printing, placement, and reflow questions?

Thank you all,

MoonMan

reply »

Michael Parker

#4236

Get back on the wall | 17 May, 2000

The MoonMan has spoken. Everybody get back up on the wall, its been long enough that this has been "off the wall".

Wish I had more Rambus chips, just got my SMT process dialed in and ran out of stock. Damn.

reply »

Fluid Dispense Pump Integration

PCB Soldering Tools