Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


0402's and Gluing.............

#32506

0402's and Gluing............. | 8 February, 2005

Help! Does anyone know how to get a Camolot Gem II machine to put down dots for 0402 placement? I have been working with Electrovert Tech's that say their machine WILL place dots for 0402's. I have reduce the speed of the pumps to half the speed, lowered the air pressure bought numerous needles and still can not get a dot small enogh to place 0402's. The tech's latest idea is to purchase yet another needle.....27g. Does anybody out there actually put down dots for 0402's with a Gem II machine? If so please contact me and give me a few pointers p--l--e--a--s--e--!

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RDR

#32510

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Can't help you with the machine, but have you considered stencil printing? I have found that this seems to be a better (more repeatable) process than the dispensers I have used in the past (FUJI).

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#32521

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Russ,

Are you placing 0402's on glue by using a stenil at present? I am afraid the appertures will be too small for the glue to release from the stencil. Are you having any issues with this? Thank you for the reply. Mike

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#32523

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Technical support cannot help with this issue, especially Electrovert tech support, those guys only know soldering and cleaning machines. Contact Jim Kaler at Camalot Applications Support: 603-641-8666 ex7208 or jkaler@speedlinetech.com

Tech support is more machine malfunctions, Applications support is for how to use the machines.

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#32524

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Pete,

I started with the App engineers, they had me try a 21g needle then a 23g needle then a 25g needle. The tech's are the ones suggesting that I slow the pump down to half speed and try a 27g needle. The needles are $150 a piece.....I now have a small fortune in needles and still no answer. I'm not sure the GemII can do what either the tech or App eng's say. Thanks for the input. Mike

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Valerie

#32526

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

We have been pretty successful with screen printing glue, however the smallest component we now glue is a 0805. We had many problems using our Gemini II to put down glue dots for a 0603, so we altered the pads to do double-side reflow. As our own internal design guideline, we won't glue anything smaller than a 0805 anymore. I really believe that screen printing glue is the answer, dot size is more consistant. The stencil costs a bit more than a paste stencil, but you a lot less headaches.

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RDR

#32527

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

We are not doing this right at the moment but I have done it with great success. Of cource it depends on your pad layout we have a 20 mil gap in between pads, we printed at 10 mil wide with a 5mil stencil. I will try to find the glue we used, I know that it was from LocTite but cannot find the number. We currently do no glue/wave processes so I am going back about 4 yrs or so.

Russ

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#32540

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Valerie,

Thank you for your reply. I have a quick question......when you converted to a double reflow process did you have any thru-hole parts on the assembly. If so how did you handle them....pin and paste? Thanks, mike

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RDR

#32543

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Sorry Duckman, I am not Valerie but I am going to answer you with what we did and do. We will either pin in paste or utilize selective wave pallets.

Russ

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Mrduckmann2000

#32544

0402's and Gluing............. | 9 February, 2005

Russ,

We can not use a wave pallet, already went that route. We have parts next to the thru-hole pins and between thru-hole pins. I am going to try an experiment in the next day or so with solder mask. I plan to solder SMT parts on the back of several PCB's then cover them with water soluable mask wave the boards then wash and see if the SMT parts moved or reflowed. I am hoping that they will not move......heard of anyone trying this? Thanks mike.

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RDR

#32551

0402's and Gluing............. | 10 February, 2005

I have done that also, It does work well. One issue we had was that the mask didn't come right off during the first wash cycle since it was put on much heavier than the mfgr suggested (.01"). We had to soak them in some water first to soften it up. There could be a better mask out there however.

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Valerie

#32686

0402's and Gluing............. | 16 February, 2005

Mike, To answer your question, Yes we have thru-hole parts on the boards that we converted to double-sided reflow, we use pallets to select solder the leads. I suppose Masking would work, but that's using a lot of mask. Can I ask, whats preventing you from using pallets?

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Mrduckmann2000

#32689

0402's and Gluing............. | 16 February, 2005

Pallets will not work in this case because the wonderful designers put 0402's between the legs and all around the legs of the thru-hole connectors. There are 18 thru-hole connectors on this board and 200 - 0402's around them. The 0603's that are alos in the area would be know problem to glue in place but the 0402's are the issue. Designers who design like this need a good public beating by process engineers.

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RDR

#32691

0402's and Gluing............. | 16 February, 2005

Public Beating? Yes,Yes indeed. So Duckmann how is this little problem coming along?

Russ

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Mrduckmann2000

#32693

0402's and Gluing............. | 16 February, 2005

Well, I have not had a chance to run my experiment yet. I hope to have the wave solder machine to myself on Friday morning. I will let you know. I am hopefull from what you and the others have said that it will work and we can reduce our touch labor time greatly. This one product has so much hand soldering we can only get 12 boards out a day per operator, if this works we should beable to increase this to 50 to 100 a day per operator. I will let you know. Thank you all for the help. Mike.

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#33041

0402's and Gluing............. | 4 March, 2005

Success! The exp worked very well. Now comes the fun of having a stencil built for the masking operation.

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