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#31929

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 7 January, 2005

We currently have agilis feeders and TM8 magazines for our Mydata machines. Our operators and set up people seem to dis-like the agilis feeders. When you set up a reel that already has the overlay tape peeled free from the carrier it gets in the way of the pick point....initially. As the tape gets fed further into the feeder the problem seems to go away because the end of the cover tape is long enough to be hanging out the back of the machine. Also, I notice that EVERY time you tear down an agilis feeder you lose at least 10 parts. We run over 5000 different part numbers, so there is no way we can leave the feeders on the reels.

Are we doing something wrong ?

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jsk

#31934

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 7 January, 2005

what we do is cut the excess overlay tape off. With agilis you do not need a "leader". Can't help you on the 10 parts that you are losing.

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OverTheHill

#31938

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 7 January, 2005

Ya know, funny things, them thar agilis feeders. I remember them at the APEX 2004 show, I could'nt even get the dam tape started on them (really hung over from the night before, but I'm SURE that was NOT the problem). Mydata's big selling point was that you did'nt waste parts at the beginning of the reel like the TM8's. Was'nt told about wasting parts when you unloaded. We do not use the agilis feeders (now), but remembering them at the show, could you tape down the uncover film back on the tape after you load them to keep the film from interfering with the pick-up? Just a thought.

P.S. Thanks SrTech for your input on the bent tool situation. I'll post when I'm sure it's fixed.

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Grant

#31940

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 7 January, 2005

Hi,

Yes, when we load new reels we cut off the end of the tape, just long enough so we can make sure the whole tape will feed out the back of the machine as it starts to feed.

We have the Agillis TM1218 feeders, and they do have problmes with the wider 12 and 16mm reels. Does anyone elce have similar problems? We find the cover tape often jammes and we then get missfeeds. The problem is wider tape has expencive parproblemsts so losing them is a nightmare.

One of the guys realized if he uses a little oil on the fork that lifts the cover tape it helps, but it's a crap solution really.

Regards,

Grant

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Darren

#31942

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 7 January, 2005

I just went through the spiel about these Agilis feeders one of the questions I asked was "Does the part that separates the cover tape from the carrier ever gum up or jam?" I was told they have never seen any problem from this issue, but when you mention putting oil on the "fork" I wonder....and losing parts at the end of the run is no better than at the beginning. Overthehill please let me know what caused your bent nozzles.

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Grant

#31943

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 8 January, 2005

Hi,

Yes, one of the problems with the MYDATA is the feeders are in groups, but at the same time, they are simple, and don't break. But the new Agillis 12 and 16 mm feeders do jam a bit. It's worse on glued cover tape, while heat bonded cover tape is better.

I think the problem is the tape is so wide there is a lot of force on the fork to move the cover tape back. It's also quite long, so you get a surface stiction effect between the surface of the fork, and the cover tape itself.

I think they need some kind of teflon coating on the surface of the fork to fix it totally, and we have to add a drop of oil to the fork to keep the cover tape sliding over it right. It's a pain in the ass.

We were never told about these problems before purchase, and we are still using two older FLEX mag's because of it. We should not need do that.

Then there is the worse optimization software I have ever seen. Whoever write that should be stabbed and shot, and trying to get an optimized feeder load on a MYDATA is almost impossible.

I hope they fix these things, or our next purchase is going to be a FuJi chip shooter so we can get some speed and reliability.

At least the thing keeps running, and after upgrading to the line scan camera over the HYDTA camera, the machine places reliably without dropping parts on the board. Apart from those issues, at least it almost never breaks down.

Regards,

Grant

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#31980

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 11 January, 2005

I think with any feeder your going to loose parts. After running the five most popular pick and place machines all I can say is, TAPE. Have your operators tape the reel after they remove it from the feeder. It coasts more in ESD tape and it�s a pain for the operator but it�s the only thing that I have found that works. I�ve never used a feeder that doesn�t have a lose of at least 5 parts being reeled and 5 parts being un-reeled. The bigest problem I�ve seen with the agilis feeders is tanalum caps. Those suck. They never want to pick. I think it�s because it�s a deeper pocketed part and those don�t work as well with the agilis feeder. Mydata�s are good for low volume low mix production but if your using over 5000 parts Mydatas really aren�t the way to go. On a lighter note as I�m writing this there is an advertisement for Mydata agilis feeders flashing on the bottom of the screen. Megan

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Grant

#31987

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 11 January, 2005

Hi,

We also had a lot of problems with tant's on the Agilis feeders, but MYDATA have a feeder that can be adjusted, and it helped a bit, however we changed the machine to a larger version, that went from a HYDRA camera to a line scan camera, and all the problems with component mispicks and drops have mostly gone away.

Before that we got situations where the board would come out with passive components dropped all over the board, and they were not coming loose, they were extra parts. We were using new paste each day because of the problem. That's mostly stopped with the new machine with the line scan, and we are not sure if there was some kind of fault on the old machine, or the line scan camera is much better than the HYDRA camera.

Regards,

Grant

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John

#40144

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 3 March, 2006

Mydata sells clips you put on the cover tape after it is removed from the agilis feeder.

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#40147

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 3 March, 2006

Hi,

Wow, weird seeing this old thread pop up again, and it's weird re reading my old posts, and remembering how frustrated we were with the larger 12 and 16 mm Aggillis feeders that kept sticking.

We ended up dumping the MYDATA as it just could not place parts accurately, and the vision system is total crap. I know there is a lot of MYDATA fans here, and I was one, because I did not know anything else, but once we put in the Fuji's the difference was amazing.

However nothing's as easy to setup as the MYDATA was, and we could add new products much faster. But when your only doing about a dozen different types of products, and what you really need is accuracy, and performance, then nothing compares to the Fuji and they have been amazing. But you do pay for it.

Regards,

Grant

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Mity-C

#40149

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 3 March, 2006

Good Morning All,

We have a Mydata shop. 5 lines in all. We are also using a mix of old style and Agilis feeders. The claim that you will not loose parts in loading is based on keeping the clip with the reel. This is the whole basis of the Agilis concept. If you are loading and unloading, the only advantage is the X and Y adjustable pick positions (as opposed to only X)and maybe advance speed. If you have the correct size clip for the part, the cover tape does not fully separate from the carrier and does not flop around. Keeping the clip with the component reel is an expensive proposition. We have dedicated Agilis clips to certain customers. We have only invested in 8mm as I have heard conflicting reports on the effectiveness of the larger clips and we felt that this was a very small percentage of the required components on a job.

As far as the accuracy, we are placing micro BGA's CSP's, 0201's and ultra fine pitch QFP's. I have worked on Fuji's and agree that they are extremely accurate but I find the Mydata's to be capable if they are maintained well.

If I needed to buy a machine to build thousands of assemblies at high speed i would go with Fuji. but in a low volume high mix environment, I think the changeover is easier on the Mydata's.

My $.02

Thanks

Chris

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#40170

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 3 March, 2006

Those clips were not available when this thread was originally posted.

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#40196

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 5 March, 2006

Hi,

Your right, and the MYDATA's are much easer to setup, and a lot of it's got to do with them knowing which way a part is oriented, and it makes it a lot easer to know by looking at each part if it's rotated correctly. The Fujis don't do that, and you need to kind of know which way the part will be.

Most of our frustrations came when we tried to get faster production out of the MYDATA, and it was very hard. Repeating the same reel value to try and keep the HYDTA fast was a real problem. We also got dropped components on the PCB, and never really solved that.

The good thing is a MYDATA is affordable, and a great way to get started. Those old TP series machines are so cheap on the second hand market, and for an old machine are very good. That's a good way to start if you need flexible but low speed SMT production.

Regards,

Grant

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#40208

Mydata Agilis Feeders | 6 March, 2006

We have also had some of the same problems, but at the risk of sounding redundant, we have had success in using both the 8mm and 16mm tape clips to secure the tape. We have also been very pleased with the adjustable 16mm feeder doing a job the regular feeder should probably be capable of. We normally feed about 10mm-12mm worth of tape ahead of the pick position when using cut tape and correct as necessary.

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