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Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


DEK supports

#31312

DEK supports | 10 November, 2004

We are looking for a new way to support PCAs in the DEK. I am trying to push for getting grid-locks but have been told they cost to much. Right now we are trying out another support system (hell if I can remember what they are called) like the grid-locks but it take 10min. at the start of every run to set up and are a pain in the ass. Dose anyone have any ideas on something else that could be used or if we could find a used grid-lock system? Any feed back would be helpfull. Megan

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RDR

#31313

DEK supports | 10 November, 2004

Has anybody tried those gel filled little piggies yet?

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Ken

#31318

DEK supports | 10 November, 2004

Yep, just finished a 30 day eval.

Way cool stuff. Spendy though. The Gel did not solve all scenarios encountered. But, is a fantastic alternative to rigid tooling.

I have many Grid Lok systems. There are pro's and cons to both systems. Overall, I would recommend it.

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Dorklover664

#31319

DEK supports | 10 November, 2004

No. What are they and where can I find more info. on them? We are using Red-E-Sets and I hate them. They take forever to set up and I feel that they aren't as good as some of the supports that I have used in the past. But we got a 30 day trial so for the next 30 days I'm stuck useing them. Megan

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no gel pig fan

#31327

DEK supports | 11 November, 2004

I would definately try to sell the bosses on the Grid-lok over the gel piggies. We evaluated both and wound up buying the Gel (for close to the same money). On an MPM if you put enough gel packs in the vacuum box (to support the board) it holds the board off the vacuum plates, and if you put in less it doesn't support the board worth a damn. They compensate by sending you metal supports that go with the gel packs (that ought to tell you something), which seems to me to defeat the purpose! I haven't used them on a machine that clamps the sides of the boards but would say odds are good if you put enough gel in to support the board properly, it'll be bowing the middle of the pcb. With grid-lok I didn't see any of those problems and set up was easy and less operator dependant (constantly putting too much gel under the PCB). DEK has the form-flex (last I heard) that we used a coupla years ago (initial units had "issues") but maybe they are better now.

good luck

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no gel pig fan

#31328

DEK supports | 11 November, 2004

P.S. I evaluated the Red-e-set and didn't think much of them either.

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CL

#31338

DEK supports | 11 November, 2004

We are using the Red-E Sets on our DEK Infinities and they are working fairly well. There are some issues but the setup time beat the Form Flex and was more reliable than the Autoflex in our machines. We looked at Grid Lock. This seemed to solve all of the problems. Grid Lock (with Stealth Mode) resetts on each board. This is in my opinion, the best option. It was not cheap. The Red-E-Sets were about $700.00 per strip. we were able to equip both DEKs and our placement machines for about half the cost of one Grid Lock.

Good Luck

Chris

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#31343

DEK supports | 11 November, 2004

Did you like the FormFlex tooling as far as support goes? I would be more inclined to spend the set up time if we got better support. As of now we have about 30min, between runs so the set up time isn�t as important as the cost and the support is. We had an Autoflex set up in our DEK and it broke and was way to much to fix for a system that didn't work well to begin with. Megan

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no gel pig fan

#31344

DEK supports | 11 November, 2004

We worked with 3-4 revisions of the form-flex and they all had problems with stuck pins or pins that just wouldn't come out (due to leaks). The Form flex was pneumatic and hydraulic and worked well for awhile (2-3 weeks)but never seemed to last much longer, before problems. Where the grid-lok was pneumatic only and seemed to be much more reliable. They both work great as far as support and set up time, it's just that Grid-lok worked great every time.

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#31355

DEK supports | 12 November, 2004

So the Grid-Loks are the best but if it was between the FormFlex or the Red-E-Sets what be the best? Megan

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CL

#31357

DEK supports | 12 November, 2004

Good Morning, I feel that the Grid Lock system (with stealth mode) is the best system for absolute support. For us, it came down to spending 5K or 30K. We went with the 5K. The system we got is not perfect but serves our needs. The Grid lock resets hard support pins for each board.I dont think that you can get any better than that.

Just my $.02

Good luck

Chris

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no gel pig fan

#31358

DEK supports | 12 November, 2004

I would get a demo set of the form flex (they will probably give you it for at least a few weeks hopefully a month) and check it out. They could be much more reliable than when I tested them. I would definately take a working form-flex over a working red-e-set but form-flex is probably pretty close in price to grid-lok. Also think about whether the units can be adapted to your pick and place down the line. The Grid-Lok folks were happy to help with that as well.

good luck

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Don

#31371

DEK supports | 14 November, 2004

I'm glad I dropped in here. I am about to buy some tooling for a Fuji GP-641E. I have been told to get the Red-E-Set, but from this discussion I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

The local dealer wants US$1000 each for the 24" segments, we would probably need 6 to 8, so if there is a better product for similar $$ I'd love to hear more.

The other problem I have is the base plate of the Fuji is alloy, magnetic tooling is going to cause problems, but I will probably have to make some kind of removable steel plate anyway.

Any help here will be appreciated. - Don.

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#31372

DEK supports | 14 November, 2004

From talking to the DEK rep. the Red-E-Sets seam to be the way to go if you are watching cost. We have a 30-day �trial� of them right now so I will post what we learn. I keep trying to talk my manager in to the Grid-Loks but I don't know if that�s going to happen. Megan

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#31409

DEK supports | 17 November, 2004

Megan,

I know that Ovation Products will send Grid-Lok's out for evaluation. They also sell used and demo systems directly.

You can contact them from their website at http://www.grid-lok.com

Hope this helps.

Good luck with your evaluation

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