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SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT

SBUCKLEY

#30826

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

We are looking at replacing our present SMT equipment and so far reviewed the Samsung CP40C/S, CP40 CV/S and the Contact C5. I am looking for user of either manufacturer in thier operations and your assessment on the machines. Has anyone purchased a C5 machine or know whether this is a viable replacement for a low volume high mix application? What is your oppinion on the Samsung equipment good or bad.

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pjc

#30829

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

Please be careful about responses you get. Opinions run rampant and it is not wise to make a decision on equipment based on opinions of others. For example, you may get five negative replies on a piece of equipment from five incompetent idiots. Certainly you would not want to have your decision effected by such individuals. And the dangerous thing is that you do not know these people- to know the nincompoops from the smart ones. That�s why I have never put much stock in customer references. They almost never have the same application as mine too. The proper and professional method, in my opinion, is to stick with the facts and use your own "hands on" experience to guide your decision. In the case of pick and place companies, the IPC have created a protocol for pick and place machine evaluations for comparison. There are specifications for placement accuracy and repeatability and placement rate in terms of components per hour. This is a third part setting the criteria for performance. Also, getting financial data on a potential supplier is a must in these times. Learning the vendors support structure and how well they service your region is very important if you value after sale support. That covers the facts- machine performance, financial strength and service support. I would visit each vendor with a kit of boards, components and CAD data. Send nothing in advance. You want to see how they deal with issues- not behind the scenes. Your goal here is to see how to program the machine- from scratch, set up machine and load/unload feeders, make adjustments and run the machine. I would guarantee if you go through these items on each vendor you�ll see enough difference to make your decision. I do not work with or are affiliated with any of the vendors you list. There are far too many opinions thrown out on this forum with little or no facts to back them up. Do the unbiased comparison- do the due diligence.

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Jason Robotham - Tekmart

#30830

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

Would you consider pre-owned, 2002 vintage Samsung CP20CV? 2001 vintage CP33LV?

Please reply to jason@tekmart.com

Thanks, Jason

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RDR

#30831

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

Probably one of the "incompetent idiots" but we have 4 Samsung machines, 1 CP45FV, 2 CP20CV, and one CP40CV. I have never owned or operated a Contact Systems Machine. As far as the Samsungs We as a company have had great success with these machines with packages from 0201 to 50mm BGA packages. The software is easy to use, the machines so far have been very robust requiring only one cable replacement on one machine after 5 yrs. of continuous service. The service in the states is now very good after some restructuring. I don't know if the CP40s have the single stage conveyor option but stay away from it and go with the 2 stage conveyor. A downside to the CP platform is it's limited feeder slots. 48-52 8mm slots on both the front and rear, but you have to "prohibit" them when you use a tray and an upward vision camera. A tray platform and the camera will take 30+ slots away from you. They do make elevators to allow for multiple trays however.

I have never used Contact Systems equipment and here is one reason why. I requested some information and quotes from these guys regarding Through Hole equipment such as automated axial insertion, some of there other tools and equipment so we could entertain a large T.H. contract and got 0 response from them even after I placed a follow up call to ask what they thought. My thinking is if they can't be dilligent enough to sell a piece of equipment what will happen when you require service? I don't know. Contact systems could be an excellent company and I am the oddball case.

But i am in agreement with the previous poster, you have to check it out yourself with the products/environment that you are in.

Russ

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pjc

#30833

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

Contact Systems does not make automatic axial lead inspection equipment.

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RDR

#30835

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 4 October, 2004

I was looking for insertion equipment, not inspection equipment. I would have thought they could have replied and told me that anyway.

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#30843

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 5 October, 2004

What config are you replacing? ie 1 machine, 2 x 3machine lines, 1 x 2 machine line etc. What do you want to place with it? I can't comment on the Contact machines having never used one. On Samsungs I will say this. For your own benefit consider the CP45FV platform over the CP40 -higher speed and increased maximum component height from 12 to 15mm, which may come in handy for larger Aluminium caps etc. As far as I know the CP45FV will do everything that the CP40FV will do - you just have to select the correct fixed camera (or two). I prefer the software on the 45 and so do all of my operators. I have just asked them all and they all say they prefer running the 45's. You'll probably pay about $US20k more. If you choose Samsung and can afford it -go the CP45FV. I have no affiliation etc with Samsung. Contact me directly if necessary.

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rajesh

#30852

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 5 October, 2004

hello friend, my suggestion is that , please consider Juki ke2050/60 m/c. If you really looking for long life, service backup & accuracy, gohead for juki m/c. May be costlier than Samsung m/c.

If you need more details pls let me know.

Regards Rajesh

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#30853

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 5 October, 2004

Contact's new C5 platform is an excellent machine. I found that it is superior in value due to several points. 1. one machine capable of 192 8mm feeders. 2. Feeders that are capable of being adjusted from one size to another with little effort. Reduces the need to have extra feeders that you may use occasionally. 3. 11 to 13k pph 4. Small footprint 5. The tray handler is attched from the back, thus no feeder space is lost. 6. The feeder programming station enables you to program the feeder and slide it in at any location, and the machine will find it. 7. Component traceability in the software. 8. The ability to move feeders in and out of the machine when it is running. This enables you to set up for the next kit while running greatly reducing changeover time.

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Michael J. Zadrejko, Videotek

#30857

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 5 October, 2004

We have been using Contact System SMT placement machines since 1992 and have been constantly impressed with the performance of their machines, their service and overall attitude. We currently have three of their machines and I cannot say enough good things about their service through the years - they have always been there for us - done whatever is necessary to keep us in production. As for the machines they have been dependable, affordable workhorses with very little down time. We are currently considering replacing our existing machines with the new C5 - due to it's speed, feeder capacity, pricing and again the service of the company. In my opnion you won't make a mistake choosing them and the new C5.

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#30859

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 5 October, 2004

I do not know Contact machines as I never heard of this machine in our country. However, for Samsung, yes you may purchase and use this machine beacaues of very good technical support and easy to use.CP40 and CP 45 has no big difference in features there are only slight difference in software and speed.

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pjc

#30876

SMT PLACEMENT EQUIPMENT | 6 October, 2004

that's insertion, not inspection.

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