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Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert

Hi everybody, We are in the process of buying a new wave ... - Aug 17, 2004 by

Hiram

#30091

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 17 August, 2004

Hi everybody,

We are in the process of buying a new wave solder machine.

Does anybody have experience working with Vitronics-Soltec (Delta wave 6622-CC for example)? What about Electrovert (Electra)?

I would appreciate your feedback.

Hiram

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Grant

#30096

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 18 August, 2004

Hi,

We have the Soltec Delta C. It works well, and is very stable. I think the software is a bit simplistic, but it keeps the wave stable, so that's the main thing.

It's the timer on the software that I find annoying. It has a warm up time, and you set this into the timer. However what I would really like is a process start time, so the wave automatically turns on at whatever the warmup time is before the start time. So the software works out how long the warmup time us based on past experience, and then starts up based on that. I don't want to have to work out that.

It also keeps the solder bath at a low temp such as 150 deg C, but I would like the software to automatically work out the power required to keep it at this temp to warm up time, compared to the power required to let the pot cool all the way down to room temperature, and then warm up. So on weekends it would cool all the way, and then only power up on Sunday night before Mondays production.

But apart from that, the wave is a really well build device, and it's working really well with almost no maintenance required. It's worth cleaning the spray fluxer after each production run.

We have it configured as first zone cal rod, then the second zone convection bottom, and IR lamps on the top side. We have some heavy BNC connectors on some of our boards, and the top side heating really helps get the heat into them so they solder well. Convection on the bottom side gives us great stability, and we have not seen anything that it would not solder well.

It's also worth getting the optional conveyer in and out feeds. They are perfectly aligned to the machine, so a conveyer misalignment won't damage the machine conveyer. Also, the solder pot and bolts etc are all titanium so can handle lead free ok.

I don't have any info on the Electrovert because I have never used one, but I would purchase another soltec wave no problem, as there has been no issues with it.

Regards,

Grant

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Rob

#30138

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 20 August, 2004

Hi,

We've got a 6622, been running since Jan & does a good job. You may want to consider the smart wave option as this will (allegedly)force solder up the holes to give you better joints for lead free. Spray fluxer works very well, limiting the amout we use & giving good coverage.

Make sure you get a demo on both with your most demanding board.

Cheers,

Rob.

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RDR

#30139

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 20 August, 2004

I have never used the Vitronics but have pretty extensive experience with the Electra as well as Ultra-Pak and econ-pak from electrovert. I ahve been impressed with these machines for their durability and ease of use. A laminar flow with the rotary chip wave has performed very well for us. I would think that either the vitronics or the electrovert are going to give you want you want and it is probably going to end up as personal preference. As mentioned earlier try them both out and see which fits your style better.

Russ

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Hiram

#30148

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 20 August, 2004

Grant, Rob and Russ thanks for your feedback and have a great weekend...hope you don't have to work tomorrow...

Hiram

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#30190

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 24 August, 2004

Hiram,

We have just had the same decision to make! I was at Vitronics Soltec, Holland about 4 weeks ago doing trials for Lead Free. The Soltec Delta machine was ultimatly chosen over price verses performance. Both machines are very capable but the extra Â?30k ($50k) for the Electrovert Vectra (more for the Electra) deterred me. I don't know if you are in the US, perhaps the price of an Electrovert is cheeper over there.

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#30200

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 24 August, 2004

Jon Hall: What were the areas of performance of the Electrovert Vectra that stood above the Vitronics-Soltec Delta?

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#30216

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 24 August, 2004

We have a Soltec Deltawave with single nozzle spray fluxer, chipwave, and waveform. It preforms well. I am not fimilar with Electrovert models so I can only give you some of the pitch I got when I went back East for training. Features I like about the Deltawave are a stand by wave that reduces the wave height to the top of the waveform when boards are not directly above the wave. This is to lessen the formation of dross. The software has 10 levels of password protection to keep unauthorized persons from changing the settings. Every setting or menu can be set with it's own level of axcess. On the down side The spray fluxer gets air in flux alarms if flux pump RPM is set too high in a profile the adjustment on the flow meter only goes up to half of the range of the flow meter. Also with the Spray fluxer unless tracking and start / stop positions are accuratly set, over spray tends to make a mess of internal surfaces. The profiles for the fluxer should be left to programmer / tech / engineer and not the operators unless well trained. Replacement parts seem to be expensive but arn't they all. Most relays and electrical components are common third party available type parts. Maintenance is tracked by the software and alerts come up when PM is due. The bigest problem we have is getting the operators to do their daily cleaning of the machine.

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#30357

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 2 September, 2004

Other way around Dave. We decided that the Delta had more in common with the Electra rather than the Vectra, the Electra being much more expensive. For example, we wanted 3 preheat zones for lead free and this would mean an exernal fluxer unit if we chose the Vectra. The Delta had the three zones and a fluxer unit fitted internally, like the Electra. I would guess that Electrovert equipment is cheeper in the US. That might well have swayed my decision.

Let me know if you want more information.

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Joe Wesley

#38845

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 5 January, 2006

Electrovert does not seem to be cheaper. Still about 30K more than the Delta. We are investigating too, we are concerned about the dross build up and flow design in the electrovert. The Soltec Machine seems to have less of an issue and maintenance appears to be easier. Did you look at this at all during your evaluations? Any preference there?

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#38851

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 5 January, 2006

Electrovert has a new nozzle design called UltraFill. It was designed specifically for Pb Free applications and generates about 40% less dross than the previous Lambda design. UltraFill can of course be used for Sn/Pb alloys. The name UltraFill is for improved topside hole fill. Check out:

http://www.speedlinetech.com/docs/UltraFill-Nozzle-datasheet.pdf

Maintenance is always an issue. I would take with a grain of salt what the mfrs. say. Its best to call a few customers for each mfr.'s reference list to find out what they are really doing for maintenance. How many really follow what the manual says.

Electrovert offers factory renewed machines, 100% Pb Free ready for as low as $65K.

Too many look at price and sales spin and don't really check to see how well the machines solder. Soldering quality should be king!

Also, on the dross subject, there is a new material out there that eliminates dross and saves a ton on solder. Check out:

http://www.pkaymetal.com/dross.php4

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#38886

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 7 January, 2006

Hi guys as an alternative I would check put the Nousstar leadfree wave this machine is being well recieved in Europe

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greg york

#38947

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 10 January, 2006

Worked with Soltec 6622 with Leaded and Lead Free and is a very capable machine with some good knowledgable engineers to back it all up. Not seen a Nousstar yet in the UK nor a Lead Free Electrovert either thinking about it Greg York Technical Sales Manager BLT Circuit Services Ltd England

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#39005

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 12 January, 2006

Hi Greg they are a few Nousstar machines in the UK and you will see many more. This machine is going to be very popular in the uk and Europe we purchased 2 and the quality is excellent and the control and design is excellent Check out the Altus group they are the European Agent and have some large customers who are using them when we placed our orders for these machines we had no worries due to the Service and applications support team that Altus have that was our biggest concern. ALTUS GROUP assited us with our lead free trasfer and transition and to very honest we are gaining orders due to the process that we have developed in many ways I hope they dont become to popular as this machine is giving us an edge at the moment

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Rob

#39029

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 13 January, 2006

Hi John,

It's a good machine for it's price as long as it passes the longevity test, & yes Altus are a very good sales & service company, but it's not the answer to world hunger.

What machines did you replace with this, and what did you trial it against?

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#39036

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 13 January, 2006

Hi Rob we had Electroverts and the cost to convert them was just crazy and the nozzles and specification would never have really be able to run leadfree as for life of the machine, I was able to see the machines running some for had been running 24/7 for almost 5 year so this was a good test and they were no worse or better than any machine for that age as for the price the price is excellent there was no way I could not look at the machine for the price I can only reccomend Altus as they are all good guys and bend over backwards and they have some very experienced guys with them I looked at BlundeL an Soltec as a alternative but to help so I guessed I couldnt fail and at that price in 5 years time if they have a new model I will be able to upgrade

Take Care John

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URL

#39037

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 13 January, 2006

That's one hell of a run-on sentence!

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Rob

#39042

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 13 January, 2006

He's still excited about his wonderful new toys still, bless him.

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John

#39069

Wave solder: Vitronics-Soltec vs. Electrovert | 13 January, 2006

The New Redesigned Vectra , should fit right into the same price range as most mid-range wavesolder machines offer by most. We are looking to replace a existing Delta Wave and found the pricing about the same.But The upgrade prices can be high for nozzle configurations , but thess prices are only usually high when have Electrovert design a special nozzle per your application. Like in our case we needed a main wave contour nozzle that would pump a 13mm high wave. When we ran certain long pin connectors.That is one thing I will say about ordering through them , they will cater to your app. needs.

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