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Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797?

Hi, I had another thread on this, however it's kind of pe... - May 22, 2004 by

Grant

#28723

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 22 May, 2004

Hi,

I had another thread on this, however it's kind of petered out, and so I thought I would start another more specific thread.

We have been looking at both the Fuji CP7 and the Universal HSP4797 however really have no idea what to choose. It seems from the conversations so far, that a lot of people rate the Fuji higher in terms of reliability etc.

Does anyone run both, and have some recommendations on what they would choose, and why?

We are running the high speed DEK Horizon stencil printer and Soltec reflow and wave in the line. We have a MYDATA with Hydra head etc, however because our boards have analog video, there is a lot of passive components, and our leading product has 430 parts on the one product.

Most 0603 parts, with SO8 and SO14 type parts and a few BGA. We are looking at moving to 0402 and 0201 parts in the future, and want this line to be able to handle that.

Currently it's taking the MYDATA about 13 minutes to load a panel of 4 of these 430 part products. The line itself would take a panel at about every 30 seconds or so quite easily, so currently the line is quite slow, and we are struggling to keep up with production.

We also have limited space, however we could move buildings if we really need to. I would prefer not to though, as we like where we are now, and we have manufacturing right next to engineering, so both people communicate very well currently, and it really shows in our product design.

So this is why I am thinking about a high speed turret based chip shooter, however there could be other options. However I am thinking that a Fuji or Universal would be the perfect machine to add to the line, and we could keep the MYDATA for fine pitch.

As far as support, I think Universal would be better as we have an engineer in town, however Fuji is covered by an experienced Taiwan engineer, but he would have to fly if required would take about 2 hours or so if we could not resolve anything over the phone.

We are really going to need a machine that works well, and is stable. We are also worried about cost of operation. The Universal guys have a document that tries to compare, however they quote a Fuji are over $200,000 to run in the first 3 years, which seems high. Not sure what to make of that, and I still need to look into it further.

Regards,

Grant

reply »

Alan

#28731

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 23 May, 2004

Hi Grant, most of my experience is with the range of Fuji equipment, CP's, IP's, QP's. I have not worked with the CP7 yet. With the proper training, Fuji equipment is superb to work with and will run for years.

My only Universal experience is with the GSM 1 and 2, which are also good, but I don't know the Universal chip shooters.

We are in Western Australia and all our lines are Dek/Fuji/Soltec. No issues with spares,service or support.

Have you thought about contracting some of your boards out as an option.

Cheers, Alan.

reply »

Mark

#28737

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 24 May, 2004

I got told to check out some of t he newest stuff from Fuji as well. Heres the nice one of the XP. http://www.fujiamerica.com/machines/xp242.asp

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#28746

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 24 May, 2004

I have worked with Fuji turret machines for several years. I highly recommend them.They are mechanically superb. They very very rarely break. The only draw back from Fuji in my experience is the knowledge of the guys you get when you call the service dept.(All the more experienced guys got laid off when the economy took a dump) BUT... A couple of those guys work for an after market Fuji pieces parts place.(SMT research)I have always had good luck with them. I believe they do service calls too.

You may want to take a look at the used market. CP643's will handle down to 0201. 642 machines may also, but you might have to upgrade something.

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Grant

#28760

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 24 May, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the info, and were the cost of running very high? Do they take long to change over products?

Regards,

Grant Blackmagic Design

reply »

#28761

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 24 May, 2004

Hi Grant, you have 2 good machines there. Thing to remember: Fuji machines need an external controller to run (Fuji cam or Flexa), you will have to buy that (extra cost). HSP have is own firmware include. HSP can do pick-up correction both in X and Y direction, CP7 just in X. This is important for smalls chips (0201 and 0402).For mechanical performance I think CP7 is a bit better but for service, HSP is better. Both machines can place 0201 chips and feeder are good quality and easy to work in both case

reply »

Alan.

#28762

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 24 May, 2004

Hi Grant, change over and set up times for the CP's depend on a few things. For one, if you have enough feeders you can have the feeders reeled up ready to go on the machine. The change over will be very quick.

If you are lucky enough to only have a few products you could have a permanent set table, all products on the machine without the need to change over.

Or you could have table one set up for one product and table two set up for another product. This means while one product is running the operators can be setting up the other table without stopping the machine.

Or again both tables set up for the same product. When one table runs out of a part the CP kicks out the table for part change and the other table comes into play. This means in theory that the machine will never stop running.

Hope I explained this ok.

Cheers, Alan.

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#28775

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 25 May, 2004

Also CP-7's have that feeder carriage quick change option which allows you to pull out the whole feeder carriage via a quick change cart and replace it with another one.

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#28776

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 25 May, 2004

I can't offer a recommendation but I have a question. Doing the math (4 x 430 parts = 1720 parts, 13 minute load time) I calculate 7938 cph. With mostly 0603 components why can't the Hydra head come closer to the claimed 21,000 cph rate? Am I missing something?

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Grant

#28777

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 25 May, 2004

Hi,

That's the interesting point, and I think it's got to do with the design of the placement. You have 8 pick heads in the Hydra head, and they all line up with a tape in the feeder.

So in theory when it can pick all 8 components at once, and then place them onto the PCB, it's running fastest. However when you look at the optimization software for setting up for fastest placement, you need almost twice the number of feeders as component types used on the product, because you need to repeat similar components so the Hydra can pick all components at once, and run at best speed.

The Hydra only runs fast when it can pick all 8 nozzles at once, and if it has to pick twice or more, it's quite a lot slower.

The problem is we only have enough feeders for the component types on the product, so we cannot load multi reels of the same component type, and the extra feeders are costly. It's an expensive way to get the rates speed.

Also, you have travel time from the feeder to the PCB and back. So the whole process is quite inefficient when you see it running.

Also even the latest model Agilis feeders, while a large speed improvement over the older Agilis feeders, are still quite slow when compared to a Fuji or Universal feeder speed. Also, they only feed one at a time, so when the Hydra does a multi pick it has to wait for all the feeders to sequentially feed.

I was visiting a facility, and they had Siemens placers with a line of pick heads, and while they were a lot faster, they still suffered from wasted time while picking components and moving between the feeders and the PCB.

This is why I am thinking about turret based machines. Although they are more expensive, they are a much more efficient way to place parts because the picking and placing is happening at the same time, and the parts are piplined through the turret.

Although all machines will run well under the rated speed on a real world product, I am thinking they will come closer to matching the published speed, because they would be a more efficient, and easer for software to optimize the load process for best place speeds.

I could get more MYDATA machines, however I would still need to have lots of extra feeders over the multiple machines to allow placement of the parts. This extra feeder cost is quite high, and starts to eliminate the difference in price. So this is why I am currently looking at either a Universal or Fuji turret based placer as options for increasing the speed of our line.

I would be interested in peoples comments on my line of thought here!

Regards,

Grant

reply »

Grant

#28778

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 25 May, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the info, and this really helps a lot. So the change over time is really just loading the different feeders? That does not seem like too much trouble.

How does the X and Y correction on the HSP effect real world placement accuracy? Does it help, or is it a technical implementation feature that's handled differently on the Fuji?

I noticed that the differences between the machines in the marketing seems to include things like the motors on the turret on the HSP so it can rotate the components while the turret is moving, however the turret is stopping and starting all the time anyway, so I am not sure of the real world advantage.

Also, the extra weight of all the motors could cause vibration issues, or stress on the gear boxes etc. However that might be compensated for, and not relevant either.

This is why it's quite hard to know how these things effect the performance of the machine. It's fairly complex, and the only real way I could tell the advantage of each method is to establish how reliable the two different types of machines are when operating.

It's really interesting, however at the same time hard to know which feature is relevant in real world operation.

Regards,

Grant

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#28780

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. Couple of other things to consider:

1) Are both machines similar in price? 2) CP-6 feeders will work on a CP-7 although the larger pans need to be changed. Used CP-6 feeders go for about $175 on average and there are always plenty on the used market. If the HSP feeders are specific to that model you will be buying them new I'm afraid. 3) Is Fuji still making a CP-7? Maybe not as their new model is the CP-842. Have you looked into that one yet? 4) Fuji turret based machines likely outnumber HSP's 100 to 1 worldwide...if not much higher. All things being equal that fact right there would sway me towards Fuji. 5) Finally how's Universal's relationship Hitachi these days? What would happen to support if those two companies suddenly soured on each other. I don't see that marriage lasting forever and if that happens say good bye to the HSP line.

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Grant

#28785

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the info, and I had not considered some of these points. Is the CP-842 available? I have not seen any info on it?

Regards,

Grant

reply »

I haNice thread

#28786

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

Well guys being a service Engineer I have worked on various placement machines and I have got to be honest each machine has good aspects over each other if you could take all the machines put them together it would be excellent but you cant if I was going to invest my money I would have to go for Fuji as these machines are robust the vision system is the best out there and if you look after the machine and keep it calibrated you will have no problems again this is only my opinion although after 20 years working on a wide range of kit I would always go with fuji

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#28790

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

I have been told that if you order a CP7 machine right now, you will get a CP8.

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vickt

#28791

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

The Universal / Hitachi partnership is stronger than ever! Joint Ventures and other cooperative arrangements are now the norm in any industry and make product offerings much stronger. Our partnership is long term and dates back to 1989. Our most recent OEM agreement extends our relationship for another 5 years, and has opened the doors for even further product and technology sharing.

Hitachi HiTech is a pleasure to have as our partner.

Enough said?

T. Vick, UIC - HSP Products

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#28794

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 May, 2004

Enough said? Perhaps. One other question...how committed to SMT equipment is Hitachi? Big company...lots of irons in the fire. Willing to put up with a division with eroding sales (especially in the US)? I suppose Hitachi will continue to use UIC to sell their equipment in Asia? I doubt it.

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Patrick Tarell ... Automation Engineering Jabil Circuit

#28834

Recommendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 29 May, 2004

Hello Alan! We have used both chipshooters, we also have a Mydata with the hydra head... We switched entirely from Fuji CP7 to the UIC HSP4796 and now HSP4797.

The CP7 is a nice machine but we were very unhappy with the support structure within Fuji and we were constantly repairing or replacing feeders and nozzles.

The UIC HSP4797 is the fastest chipshooter I have ever seen. The linear motor technology in the feeder carriage is what sets the two machines apart. The feeders do not require constant maintenance to keep your PPM levels acceptable and the nozzles rarely break.

The truth is, either of these 2 machines will reach the cycle time you are looking for, but this is definitely not a process fit the Mydata machine. What it comes down to is which machine requires the least maintenance and which company will offer you the best support of their products. That answer is simple... UIC.

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Mike Albert

#28850

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 1 June, 2004

Guys I've been following your threads for a bit here. I have to say that the Universal machine is as robust and probably better than the Fuji. I too have been in this business for about 20 years and have had considerable experience on both. The plant I currently work for literally kicked Fuji out due to machine performance, but mostly for SUPPORT or rather lack of SUPPORT. As stated in previous thread if you maintain the Fuji and cal it regularly you should be ok. Here is the kicker........ as we all know we can run 24/7 for months at a time with zero time for PM and cal. This where Universal shined and Fuji failed. This is my opinion but it reflects the reality I have seen.

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#28853

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 1 June, 2004

I dont want to get into a bun fight you are the first person I have met that has kick out fuji machines in my experience fuji chip shooters are better and up untill universal did have the upper hand on fine pitch but not any more although will all you guys have all sorts of machines it keeps guys like me in a job so if you have any probs wiht your Fyjuis give me a shout I am sure I will be able to help

Take care I am of to China to help them setup a universal and Fuji Line

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#28854

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 1 June, 2004

Sorry about the typing I was eating a my dinner

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#28861

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 1 June, 2004

Don't discount some of the other Ex Fuji engineers. I was Senior to the Service engineers that went to SMT. I Trained many of them before they went into the field and I am less expensive on service. (ATS-SMT.com)

This message was posted Add this forum to your site! Click to learn more. the Electronics Forum @

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Grant

#28933

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 4 June, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the info, and can you let me know about some of the issues that were seen. We are still not sure which way to go in our decision yet, however from looking at both videos on the machines running, the Fuji's look very fast. The PCB change over is amazing.

However what matters is real world performance. For example, when people say the Fiji is a more solid machine, what would that opinion be based on. Less down time? Less maintenance required?

Regards,

Grant Blackmagic Design

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gregf912

#28938

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 4 June, 2004

Grant,

The Fuji chipshooters are built with the same mindset as the hydraulic presses and huge motor lathes that were the CP ancestors. The first Fuji CP was a modified motor lathe. They are solid. I can move a Fuji across the country and not have to calibrate it. Not many you can say that. Fuji machine are not subject to a lot of down time. Two things to remember, 1- Keep the machine clean, 2- Keep the machine lubed. THe performance over the long run will be better with a Fuji, .

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Grant

#29078

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 13 June, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the info, and can you describe some of the advantages and disadvantages you have experienced between the models? That would be really helpful!

Regards,

Grant

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#29082

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 13 June, 2004

Actually, Fuji machine corp. was founded on chip cutting machines.(Metal cutting machines) Fuji incorporated what they knew from this industry in the design of their circuit board assembly machines. I come from a long line of mechanical design engineers and machinist. Fuji machines are without a doubt superbly designed and assembled with the highest quality components.

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tsthum

#29085

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 13 June, 2004

hi there

no more turret machine recom. pls go to modular type smaller & faster. Siplace recommended.

bye

reply »

Justanobody

#29200

Recommendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 23 June, 2004

Really? Unhappy with the support structure within Fuji. Is that why Jabil Brazil and Guad. are buying a boat load of Fuji's latest machine. Plus, the CP7 isn't sold any more. Get up to date, its a CP8.

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exmaintenanceleader

#29206

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 23 June, 2004

Hi Grant, I'm ex Fuji service engineer I install also at Sagem Czecz Republik (Kladnow near Prague)

in 2000 they use at new lines MPM- 2XCP643E and 1xUniversal GSM (French owen (I do not remember the exacly tipe) at second hand line they use 2x and CP642 afther 10000 housr maintenance and 1uni gsm also great maintenance done.... 1 line they run 3xCP643 and 2x uni gsm All lines procucing gsm phones (2 side reflow technology) CP643-laser sensor type 100% non laser sensor type probems allways afther big stopes... rate 80% CP642 afther 10000hours maintenance 100% but 10000hours maintenance 1 MC apox 1 week for 2 Fuji eng....(16hours /day)my private experience afther fuji in 3shift 3 days (9 shift for 2 persons. Universal New machine install 1-mc if promlem ligt present 1 week and each axis must recalibrating, problems by transport than big days losting. 2nd hand big maintenance= placing head change and repair or rebuilding it in universal Headquoter.

CP7 I newer install and see, but i see dokumentation and it is better than cp 643, pc local computer inside the mc quick acces from line computer easy menu with touch screen and a long life mc but my opinion is Fuji QP-132 chipshooter 127000 components/ hours and Motorolla Flensburg is well statisfy with 50 lines.

Universal new type I o not see it.

CP-7 is for analphabecic technicians professional guys are trained at cp-3..cp-4 :) many many work

Universal please no. 1 problem inside and half of the mc scrap .

ok Fuji is also not the best

check also Panasert MV-2b is like Fuji but with long life nozzles

I use it and no spareparts required

what is your plan?

szhorvathbp@yahoo.de

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exmaintenanceleader

#29207

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 23 June, 2004

Grant and all! CP-2 is the oldest fuji as I have been operated. CP-3 is built in 1989 as a new mc. Now 15 mc I now they runs in 3 shift widouth problems when they need countinous runing comes the problems. conroll card and relay contact problems

at 8 year old cp 4 is problem mosly gearings and nozzle and at 40000 hours widouth big maimtenance at 10000ppm

CP-6 19 nozzle returning st problem when long standing cp-642 is ideal to run CP-643 sensor problem in cam box and new conveyor sensor problem older laser type is 100% operation in countinously running.

siemens is problem ... too many nozzle change in HS-50 S-20 cutt wires in placing head ewery 2 monts afther waranty --- of course

Philips FCM afther product change where is my sero point at 2nd year old type

Panasert and fuji is your mc. If you have problem with fuji newer use Fuji Engineer from Fuji. Better ex fuji engineer wich care about you more and you are the important person not the "9351st customer and I must go back I newer sleep for 25 hours please don't heristate me" Engineer

Horv�th Szabolcs Budapest

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Grant

#29270

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 26 June, 2004

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback in your experiences, and I am heading up to a show next week, and will get a chance to check it out!

Regards,

Grant Blackmagic Design

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Sam

#29357

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 2 July, 2004

You can't tell how a machine will perform on your particular board by looking at it place parts at a trade show. Usually they demo a best case scenario (parts in a simple grid pattern, few package types, etc.)

You need to supply the board data for your board(s) to Fuji, Universal, Siemens, etc. and ask them to give you a written throughput guarantee. That will end all your speculation about which machine is fastest.

If you are looking for inflexible, large footprint machines that de-rate heavily to account for feeder reloading and turret slowdown to lower the centrifucal forces on larger parts then the CP and HSP will meet your requirment.

For my money, modern, small footprint, gantry style placement machines are the only game in town.

By the way, did anybody even see a turret style placement machine at Apex this year or at Productronica? Not.

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#29369

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 4 July, 2004

Sam- It all depends on what and how many boards you're trying to build that will determine if gantry or turret is the way to go. I like gantry machines and have been impressed by their increased performances over the last few years but they still have drawbacks. They are still delicate in nature, heavily over engineered in many cases and not robust enough to withstand several years of hard use. But if you're changing over a lot, running boards with lots of BGA and QFP's and you don't have any volumes...then a gantry machine is the only way to go. But if space is no big deal and you need to blast out 4,000 boards a shift of which 90% of the components are chips and you only change over once a week...the turret chipshooter is the machine for you.

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vickt

#29450

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 9 July, 2004

Sam.. Consider that the majority of NA and Euro electronics assembly is primarily higher mix, lower volume. Space is tight (and expensive) at tradeshows, so manufactures tend to bring what the local markets require. Like it or not...Other than a few exceptions, the real volume manufacturing areas have mostly moved to the other side of the globe.

T. Vick

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Sam

#29455

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 9 July, 2004

If pure speed is the main requirement then I would still not go with Turrent technolgy machines. The FCM from Assembleon (Now AX) is the fastest machine in the industry and consumes much less floor space then any Turret. Gantry machines such as Siemens HS-60 and Pana CM402 are also faster then turret machines and have better accuracy and flexibility in a much smaller footprint.

Factory floorspace, like trade show floorspace, costs a lot of money which is one of the main reasons to switch to smaller modular gantry machines. More output per square foot is better.

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#29456

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 9 July, 2004

If you think the FCM is the fastest machine then may be you need to research again. Compare the FCM speed to the NP, you will see which one is faster. Anyway, I do like the gantry a lot, but for high volume, gantry still have no match with turret. FII

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#29474

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 13 July, 2004

Not to mention the costs of FCM based machines. $1.2 million USD for an FCM-2 with 100 feeders was the price a year ago. Now that's expensive floor space!

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Tim Goodman

#31213

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 3 November, 2004

well to add to your information .you are correct that you will get a cp8 instead of a cp7 and its cheaper.the cp7 range has been replaced by the cp8 because of the y 2 axis control that allows beter pickup of 402 and 0201 components.my moneys on the fuji

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Can you hele me?

#32143

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 19 January, 2005

Do you have the Fuji Flexa sofware ? Can you post it to me? I am a Chineseman who wanto become a maintenance engineer of Fuji smt . my emial :2003weizhong@sina.com

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RDR

#32144

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 19 January, 2005

Although I have not personally run or programmed either the Universal or the Fuji to any great extent, I have worked in factories that have utilized each type. One had 4796 machines and the other used Fuji CP3, 4, 4-2, 6, 643. As an observer I am definitely sure that the Fujis ran better. The Fuji lines would run all day, all night without stopping except for feeder replenishment. It seemed that the Universals would stop constantly at least once per board for "t" errors and such and when looking at head status it would be noticed that a lot of the nozzles had shut themselves off for high error rates (I believe that is what was going on). A common statement in the factory was "our chipshooter just won't shoot chips". But keep in mind that proper/good engineering or lack thereof in relation to programming and the component data might possibly have had the adverse effect on the Universals performance. I believe that this might be some of the reason that everybody has there favorites and no-one totally agrees on which is best.

Russ

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Fuji's Rule!

#33441

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 29 March, 2005

I have worked with them both, operations, maintenance, and programming and I will tell you that the Fuji will out perform UIC anytime.

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Curious

#33447

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 30 March, 2005

Grant, I'm just curious on which machine You decided on, since Your initial thread is almost a year old?

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Grant

#33461

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 30 March, 2005

Hi,

Yes, it was fun reading this thread again. We initially upgraded our MY9 to a MY12 with line scan camera, but it was still too slow. We considered getting a second MYDATA, but decided to go with some FuJi XP 142, and 242 machines, with a second XP 142 later to speed up the line.

Some of our products have a lot of parts, and the MYDATA needs to many repeated parts to optimize for the HYDRA. We are going to sell the MYDATA early May once the change over has happened. We just don't need the flexibility of the MYDATA any longer, and are more focused on higher volume, while retaining fast changeover.

The new machines have not arrived yet, and it will be interesting to see how they go. We decided on them because they have lots of feeders, are fairly fast, Fuji has a good reputation, and the feeders are compatible with the other Fuji models, so we can pick up extra feeders cheaper.

I did consider the CP 7 or 8, but it was too expensive and complex for what we need, and I thought two XP 142's should be similar. I checked out some factories in Taiwan, and saw both kinds of lines, and XP seemed better for us.

Regards,

Grant

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Gregf912

#33464

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 30 March, 2005

Good Choice, You will be much happier and have better output with the Fuji machines.

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Grant

#33465

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 31 March, 2005

Hi,

I hope so, and it's a big thing to change over pick and place brands like this, so we are taking a risk, but we need to expand. I will know in a few weeks!

Regards,

Grant

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zsolt

#33466

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 31 March, 2005

Hello All,

we have 2 CP842 on site and they are running simply perfect. We used our existing CP feeders (with the small reel holder). CP843 can compensate pick-up both in X and Y direction. also measuring the height of the part with a laser sensor. it was extremely useful for us as we often get the same parts with different phisical dimensions from various supplier. altogether we have 12 lines all equipped with Fuji. But I agree with Grant that the support from Fuji is sometimes strange (specially from Japan).

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#33470

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 31 March, 2005

I agree with you on the service issue. Fuji service can be a little strange from the Japanese Service engineers and the Service department at Fuji America has been cut very lean. I have been involved with SMT production for 20 years from Automation Engineer for a Contract manufacturer to Service Engineering Manager. Service is a big part of the equation. There are alternatives to the OEM s service departments Check out the guys at http://www.ats-smt.com for service on Out of Warranty machines.

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#33511

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 3 April, 2005

You better get to know who the third party service companies are because Fuji just does not care about service they rely on their reputation. If you wanted good service you should have gone with Universal. When you compare machines now days all of the big companies are equal service and support is the difference and that is where Universal shines.

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Grant

#33512

Recomendations? Fuji CP7 or Univ HSP4797? | 4 April, 2005

Hi,

We thought about the Universal turret chip shooter, and decided to go away from them because they are mechanically complex and expensive.

We also wanted to use machines of the same brand on the line so we could run the management software easily. I did not think much of the Universal fine pitch placer, and it was very large and cumbersome. I thought the XP-242 was much better built machine for fine pitch placement.

The service issue came up in the thread, and we have actually purchased through a distributor who has a maintenance engineer on staff from Taiwan, so we should be ok on that front. That's why we chose Fuji. Time will tell though.

Regards,

Grant

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SMT Custom Nozzles

Manufacturing Software