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China

#27567

China | 9 March, 2004

We(My company) are one of the few in the United States that are doing OK right now. We are in the process of purchasing used equipment to expand our manufacturing capability..Mostly Fuji. (I am using Fuji as my main example,but there certainly are others.)

It has been my observation that darn near ALL of the used Fuji equipment is being bought up by overseas companies. China mainly. Does anyone have any comment on this ?

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#27569

China | 9 March, 2004

Hi Sr.Tech.

I agree with you every bit but one.

Isn't this a U.S. based site ? Then I would like to ask YOU Mr. Sr. Tech. What is http://www. stand for? My 5 years old daughter knows the ... for this evenly English is our Second Language. I am just one of those guys who live in US and don't have a job to work. And you are one of those lucky guy still working at the job Not At Unemployment Line. If you want to buy a CP6.. Pick and Place machine. Just contact those local broker and they will happy to help you find one or tons. smtresource.com, fastek, smtsupport.com... there are many of them that you can find on this website. If you don't want them then BUY NEW and help those equipment maker stay alive in the bussiness for you and others hotline supports.

Regards,

Vinny.

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Sr. Tech

#27571

China | 9 March, 2004

This site is by subscription. Is it not ?

And I beg to differ. We have asked several of the U.S. used equipment guys for quotes used Fuji stuff. They may say they have it, but when it comes down to it you know where it ends up going. If you think I am wrong just browse the equipment mart and look who is looking for what.

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#27572

China | 9 March, 2004

Well,

Tell me how many CP6 do you/your company needed and what is the prices that you are willing to pay for each then I think I (myself) can even help you find a broker in US who I think will help to resolve your needed. Fair? I don't have a job now but willing to do it to help you FOR FREE. Just pay for what you buy.

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#27574

China | 9 March, 2004

Isn't this what they call "supply and demand" law? mucho demand + low supply = higher price? I never could understand it, but since nobody questions why the systems works this way, what is there to do?

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Sr. Tech

#27575

China | 9 March, 2004

Ummm....cummon Claude give me a little more credit than that. I understand supply and demand. That's not really the point I am after here, but anyways....carry on.

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Ken

#27588

China | 9 March, 2004

In 2001 I assisted the shutdown of two of our company facilities. Very sad day. The equipment distribution was about 75% Chinese the remaining went to Mexico (we were a multi-national CM).

I find it amusing that the Mexicans are worried about their jobs now that the Chinese are the "flavor of the week".

In 2002 I placed two Fuji's on the market. I immediatly was swamped with offers from Chinese brokers. I had offers sight-un-seen! The machines sold in one day.

I feel I was not handing them anything. I imediately invested the proceeds into brand new equipment. They can have my old beat-up fuji's!

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#27596

China | 9 March, 2004

Sr. Tech-

I'll pipe in a bit as this is a touchy subject with me as well. I do feel that sometimes I am simply selling my way out of business when I export a piece of used equipment. However business for myself in THIS country has increased dramatically in the past year and I don't feel quite the same about it now as I did a year ago. Things are turning around in the US, Canada and Mexico as requests for equipment from these countries is dominating versus Asia.

As far as pricing goes what Claude said is the simple truth...this is as pure a supply and demand business as you will ever see. We are simply in a business cycle when used equipment thrives the most and prices are near or at their peak. When the economy was at it's worst...in 2002 for example I couldn't give away a CP-6 or an MV2F ......AT ANY PRICE. I saw CP-6's for sale at $25K and CP643's for less than $100K. Remember these were machines that sold new for about $500K-$600K. Were those cheap prices realistic? No they were not. Was Cisco stock fairly valued at $9? I don't think so. It wasn't too many years ago that if you asked me to quote you a used CP-6 I would have quoted you $400K because that's what the market was paying for them back then. Today as the economy picks up steam and people need more equipment the prices will go up. Once the prices reach a certain point however, people will start to look at new machines again. We are getting close to that scenario now and will probably get to that point this year. Then of course the OEM's will raise their prices as well...but that's another story. The bottom line though...it's not Asia that's driving this price increase. If Asia was the only country buying you'd still see CP6's selling for $25K. Trust me on that one.

I'm sorry to say you've missed the boat on $25K CP-6's. We will return to those levels again some day but not for a while. So you have to pay $75K-$100K for it anyways? So instead of paying off the machine in a month at $25K you pay it off in 3 months. Remember.....YOU ARE USING THIS MACHINE TO MAKE MONEY. It's not a car. Every time you push the start button money magically appears in your pocket. You are getting a bargain even at $100K if you have the business to support it.

Rick- Fastek

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#27597

China | 10 March, 2004

One other thing. If you can't find used Fuji stuff you are talking to the wrong people. If you are talking to people who say they have it but really don't....you are talking to the wrong people.

Rick- Fastek

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#27612

China | 10 March, 2004

Ok,the point you appear to make is that the US brokers are selling the machines to Asian industries thus causing the job loss in the US... So the US brokers should stop selling to Asian industries to give the US industries a chance to buy inexpensive used machines and restart the economy. But what about the new technologies demanding the latest in machinery, i.e.: brand new higher precision pick & place etc... Each techno cycles sees the old technology go to the cheapest manpower and the new tech being built by the richer countries... or am I completely off track on this?

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#27617

China | 11 March, 2004

Claude, We are building leading edge product on 95+ vintage machinery as we speak. About the only thing that we are unable to do is 0201's.(This can indeed be accomplished with upgrades to older equip.) I am not saying that the used equipment sales are the root cause of job loss, but it certainly does factor in. How can recovering U.S. electronic manufacturers compete with a market that is about to boom. Answer: They can't.

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