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Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap

#21339

Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap | 28 August, 2002

Hi.

I have a huge problem with Fuji CP643 recognition of 0603 (1608) capacitors from PhyComp. The terminations appear round with no clear corner edges. I have used vision type 10 but also tried others without luck. For certain parts I have 10 - 20 % waste.

Fuji agreed to the problem but have now, after 3 month investigation, thrown the towel in the ring.

Does anyboby see the same problem ? Any help will be appreciated.

Brian Checkout my web-site: http://www.smtinfocus.com

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cp743

#21458

What color was the towel? | 9 September, 2002

Mr. Bentzen,

Good morning. We at Fuji have no record of any customer bringing to our attention this issue. We have never had an issue handling these parts to date. The errors that you are encountering are related to an incorrect vision type. You say you tried vision type 10 for this part. You should be utilizing vision type 11 or 12 for components which have rounded corners. This vision type has been available for several years, approximately since these parts were introduced into the market. If in the future you encounter issues related to Fuji machines please DO NOT HESITATE to contact me directly at FUJI AMERICA CORPORATION's Applications Department here in Chicago. WE WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU REGARDING ANY ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE!!

Best Regards,

Chip King

Sr. Applications Engineer Fuji America Corporation 171 Corporate Woods Pkwy. Vernon Hills, IL 60061 (847) 821-2464 Direct

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#21464

What color was the towel? | 10 September, 2002

Hi.

The towel was red and white as the Japanese flag !

The issue was addressed to Fuji Japan and was handled there.

Vision type 11 and 12 do not allow protruding nozzles, so for 0603 (1608) they can't be used.

Regards Brian

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cp743

#21481

What color was the towel? | 10 September, 2002

Brian,

I believe that someone has given you incorrect info. Both of these vision types ignore protruding nozzles during vision processing. I am currently running 1608 components with a 1.0mm nozzle on a CP-643E series machine utilizing vision type #11 without any issues. And as you can imagine the nozzle does overhang the outer edges of the component.

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Steve E

#21483

Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap | 10 September, 2002

Dear Sir I can assure you that I have personal experience with the part in question.This part will run with the recommend vision types ( 11 & 12 ). I noticed You neglected to state how old the machine was, and the amount of hours. The CP-6 series have been available for several years, it is the most advanced Chip Shooter in the field ( before the FUJI CP-7 ). Chip King has contacted you from Fuji America, he�s one of Fuji most capable people, and in my experience of over 10 years working with Fuji. They have never thrown in to towel. I can also assure you that Fuji has the best people in the business and more experience than all the other manufactures combined . I can, in my option notice that most wounds in this field are self inflicted.

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Brian Sloth Bentzen

#21484

What color was the towel? | 11 September, 2002

Hi Again.

It's funny, but the Fuji manual "SMD3 Vision Processing Referance Manual - REF-SMD3-2.0E" discribe specifically that for vision type 11 and 12 the nozzle should not protrude from the component. I believe that it should be correct then!

As for your use of vision type 11, you must compromise on the accuracy as the nozzle will be calculated as a part of the component (depends on tape pocket size of course).

Thanks for your input.

Regards Brian

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Brian Sloth Bentzen

#21485

Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap | 11 September, 2002

Hi Steve.

My Fuji CP6 is model 643 and are 3 years old, maintained and upgraded with the newest software along the way.

And, actually it was Fuji Japan that gave in, not Fuji America. Fuji Japan tested our components and found the same problem and tried to make a new vision type but could not make it work. But I think Fuji Japan are giving the issue new attention at the moment.

I still do not understand why vision type 11 & 12 will be accurate enough, when a protruding nozzle will be calculated as a part of the component. Unless the manuals fra Fuji are faulty ?

Thank you for your help.

Regards Brian

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bill yates

#21652

Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap | 20 September, 2002

What are the error codes?? you dont even know if it is the vision type until you have checked this out. It could be camera lighting. Do you know how to use vision trace on your machine? What is your x&y tolerance? What about vision 254 or 255 have you tried this? Is the cap a light color or silver like the solder terminations?

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Mark J

#21675

Poor Fuji recognition of PhyComp 0603 (1608) cap | 20 September, 2002

Well chip I ought to leave you guys hanging in the breeze on this one , but here goes.

Steve,

your assumption that the nozzle is calculated as part of the component body for types 11 & 12 is incorrect. during center test on the 643's one of the parameters that is checked is nozzle diameter. If you were to go into the vision menu's and set up temp trace then re-inspect the part you would notice that when the template is drawn it shows not only the parts boundary but also draws the nozzle boundary. As the vision system knows the position and the diameter of the nozzle in the image it will extrapolate the edges of the component and generate the offsets from that data, ignoring the nozzle. So far as the accuracy of the manuals is concerned, as they are revised new data is added and more than occasionally older data isn't edited, it just gets missed ( shikata ganai). it is difficult to keep up with changes as the firmware is under constant revision to improve speed, accuracy, utility,and functionality. The manual was correct for a CP-4.3, or a 6-4000 with early SMD3 firmware but, things change fairly rapidly in this industry. Thats why OEM's employ people like Chip ( who is one of the best by the way) to provide up to date information to customers. Which is why you might want to listen to him instead of quoting out of manuals. I would seriously like to know who you were talking to in Japan, because I can't imagine anyone I know there "throwing in the towel" either.

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