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Placement machine comparison

#20324

Placement machine comparison | 12 June, 2002

We are evaluating new placement equipment from both Assembleon/Philips and Zevatech/Juki. I would like to get comments, both pros and cons, on anyone's experience with these machines.

Thanks in advance! Jon

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#20328

Placement machine comparison | 12 June, 2002

> We are evaluating new placement equipment from > both Assembleon/Philips and Zevatech/Juki. I > would like to get comments, both pros and cons, > on anyone's experience with these > machines. > > Thanks in advance! Jon

Juki is the best.

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JAX

#20329

Placement machine comparison | 12 June, 2002

The machines you choose depends on the boards you build and how many of them you build. Assembleon is designed for faster production speeds where Juki is more flexible. Why are you just looking at these two? Aren't they in different leagues? Why not look at the others? ( Universal, Fuji, Siemens, etc.. ) In this market you would be suprised what you can get some of the " big boys toys " for.

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Todd

#20330

Placement machine comparison | 12 June, 2002

I believe you mispelled the name, the correct spelling is JUNKI.

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#20331

Placement machine comparison | 12 June, 2002


CAL

#20384

Placement machine comparison | 17 June, 2002

I always look into the Support Structure (Service, Applications, Training, Project/product management) of the organization. With that said I have to give Assembleon the edge. I also like the relationship between Cookson and Assembleon. Cookson Performance Solutions are doing great things in analytical and Failure analysis. I also look at Assembleon and Juki as being in two seperate classes. Obviously with the way industry is all tier machines are cheap.....Thats why I look at the support structure. With the bad times for Capital Equipment the companies that strategically placed them selves in a position to endure these times means a whole bunch. I am one of Siemens biggest fans but feel they have poorly positioned themselves for the current times.Example: Siemens added a direct sales force 1 year ago and went away from there rep network and now they sales people hire as direct by Siemens are now on the unemployment line. They added over head in a terrible time...bad move.This is just one case and my opinion.

cal

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#20392

Placement machine comparison | 17 June, 2002

I would look at Universal for sure. They have a ton of late model Chip placer's and GSM's that they will discount heavy. There are so many used GSM's and HSP's on the market you could probably get what you need for a fraction of the cost. You could probably buy a line that has the capacity to place 30,000 components per hour for about 75K including feeders.

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Boardman

#20407

Placement machine comparison | 18 June, 2002

Just wondering what criteria you used to come up with Junki? Direct experience? Last I checked Juki had the lowest annual spare parts costs of the major suppliers. Not what I'd call junk.

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Ken Bliss

#20409

Placement machine comparison | 18 June, 2002

Todd, for the sake of the forum could you please spell out a few key line items about why you state the Juki machines is Junki. Clearly you are unhappy with their machine. The best purpose of this forum is to identify problems with machines, processes, and companies when appropriate. This gives other users professional input for reference. It also allows the companies to respond with their side of the story. If you are by chance a competitor of theirs then it would be best if you went to another forum, because that would be just plain unprofessional. I assume you have a problem and everyone here would like to understand it.

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Todd

#20412

Placement machine comparison | 18 June, 2002

Gee Ken, the old cart business must really be slow, I see you commenting on any old item in the forum in an attempt to hawk your carts and how they improve efficient factory operation. I have read your white paper and found it very entertaining to see how a frame with wheels can keep all of our jobs in the USA. But back to the topic at hand, while my remark may be an attempt of humor at someone elses expense. (which of course, we never see here in the fine forum, I am so ashamed) Yes, I have had personal experience with a faulty machine and two service techs standing around for hours with a cell phone screwed into their ear trying to get an answer to seemingly simple machine issues. This resulting in machine down time, no product going out the door, all of your lovely carts sitting around idle and me not making any money in a tight market and getting a little hot under the collar. I will be certain in the future to keep more in line with the fine tradition of these forum postings, noting the fine SMTnet archives. Be sure to keep up the good work of trying to give yourself credibility and selling those quality carts. Good Day Sir.

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Ken Bliss

#20413

Placement machine comparison | 18 June, 2002

Todd, I am unaware why you are clearly irritated with me. I am just trying to help you and anyone else that I feel I have information or ideas that could be of use, if my ideas are not useful to you please ignore them. You are clearly unaware of my 20 years experience in this industry. I assure you it goes far beyond just carts. It sounds like you are one of our customers and are not very happy, perhaps one of my people sold you the wrong configuration if you see it as a frame on wheels. I would appreciate a chance to correct any issues you have with my companies products and make it right. In regards to Juki, although I am not a technician I do know the key people at Juki. I would be happy to call them just to ask them to respond on the forum if that would help you. I can fully appreciate being ticked off when a machine goes down and the techs that arrive are unable to fix it right away. My focus is helping the industry with processes, although I admit many are cart based.

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John Burris

#20442

Placement machine comparison | 20 June, 2002

I agree with some of the earier postings about checking other mfgs. Assembleon and Juki are really two different price point companies. Assembleon is more in line with the Panasonics and Siemens of the world, Juki and Samsung might be a better focus depending on your needs. That's the whole point. What do you want from a P&P supplier? Spare parts and support? All the mfgs are getting good @ that, it's just expected. Placement rates, you get what you pay for.

I have Juki machines, 6 years now, and I like the equipment. But that doesn't mean that if a new requirement came down that another mfg met better, that I would keep buying Juki just because.

You might want to check out the used market, with things like they are a lot of good buys are out there.

To Todd's earlier comment about tech support, all companies have good and bad employees. It sounds like he just ran into a couple of the latter.

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#20451

Placement machine comparison | 20 June, 2002

Depends on which Assembleon machine, aye? The "GEM" line, Topaz & Emerald, stuff is Yamaha- Japan, which I consider more along the lines of Juki and i-Pulse (Tenyru/Yamaha), and maybe Samsung. The "Power" line, ACM & FCM, on the other hand is pure Dutch stuff. Different class of machine. For flex assembly the Mydata (Swedish)is worth a consideration too. I heard Qualmax is going bust and i-Pulse is looking for a new N.American distributor. I heard the i-Pulse M1A is a good machine from Asian and Euro users. Don't know anybody with i-Pulse in North America- support?

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Dreamsniper

#20517

Placement machine comparison | 27 June, 2002

We've done the same....Juki 2000 series versus Yamaha / Assembleon XT series....we found out that Juki is far better, more efficient, and easy to maintain...we bought 2020 last year and found that we made the right decision...

Juki is the Best !!!!

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Darby

#20518

Placement machine comparison | 27 June, 2002

Take a peek at a Samsung CP45v before you make a decision. I'm running two before a CP40v. Runs very well. Clever software. Cheap. I'm also running two Tenryu/i-Pulse FV-7100 in line vintage 1999. Great machines but it may be some time before the support catches up. Confusing, isn't it?

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#20557

Placement machine comparison | 1 July, 2002

Have... Topaz and Emerald X inline (GEM series) very satisfied with thru-put and quality.. as well as tech support... have worked with other machines as well Fuji(3,4) Universal GSM series... and Europlacer(Multitronic) Best software goes to Universal,Europlacer..(easy) Best feeders Europlacer- you can program each feeder with a part number and place a feeder anywhere.. Best networkability- Universal GSM Worst tech support- Europlacer Considerations...... Expense of replacement parts,feeders etc.....I have seen more FUJI and GSM feeders for less more than any others, machines are a tuff line to draw.. its like buying a car.(chev,ford,dodge) and saying what you like best just because you were lucky enough not to get a lemon.... lol.. support, cheap parts and cheap feeders rank high in my book... GL..

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