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Engineering Change Notification

ianchan

#19375

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

Hi Guys,

We have a customer who is requesting us to issue a document ECN (engineering change notification) record to them, IF we have any changes in : 1) direct materials used, 2) indirect materials used, 3) machine configuration, 4) change in SMT Line we run the product, 5) process flow changes, 6) change of equipment/machine used to produce the product, 7) etc...

We can understand the customer request for the ECN record, however what we do not buy is the minimum ECN notify period of 30-days in advance of the ECN implementation date/time?

Has anyone else encountered such a customer request? or can anyone share to us, if this customer request is of normal practice, then what is the "appropriate" notification "advanced" timeline to the customer? is 30-days in advance an extreme case to inform a customer, we are changing the product run from SMT Line 1 to SMT Line 2???

PS: the customer has declared failure to notify them of any ECN change whatever so within 30-days advancement, will result in the customer possible exercise of their "right" to reject all Lots run under the period of time, that they were not "in the light" with regards to our "unauthorized" ECN changes...

Anyone who can help affirm the usual SMT industry practices for ECN notification to customer, is greatly appreciated.

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JAX

#19377

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

" The Customer is ALWAYS right! " Actually, some customers require that there product only run on certified production lines. If this is the case, everything sounds normal. If not, your customer is just being critical. If this just started recently, I would try to find out why. Your customer might be looking for a way out..... That's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

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BTaylor

#19379

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

This is always the case in the automotive industry, even if you move a machine a foot it needs to have an R&R study submitted. Now you could built product on the line and put it in MRB until the study is done and then release it.

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Fuji Spares

#19380

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

If you require a prgram to control the documentation of the ECN process - I would reccomend this company they helped out our process no end by writing a customised Microsoft Access based database

visit this site:-

http://www.tekno-media.com

also if you have any Fuji SMD machines you may wish to visit the following site:-

http:/www.fujispares.co.uk

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#19383

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

I�d expect my supplier to comply with: * ISO-9000 * J-STD-001

So, how much do you like it when your suppliers change their process, don�t tell you, and you end-up with problems they caused? We have a process that defines classes of process change, approval cycle before accepting each class, and customer notification requirements for each class.

There are probably times when the 30-day notice requirement is excessive. Although, off-hand none comes to mind. So that class of change [when 30-day notice may not be reasonable] would have a best effort to notify.

As far as the classes you mentioned: 1) direct materials used => No problem. Your buyer knows what she should order from the BOM. If she can�t order that, she submits an alternate part approval request to the customer early in the order cycle. If the supplier sends the wrong part: it�s rejected at incoming, gets MRB�d, etc. No problem. You�re not going to change tape [er sumpin like thet] without some prior investigation and approval within your company, anywho. So, notifying your customer should be no BIG whoop. 3) machine configuration => No problem. You�re not going to change the machine configuration without substantial prior investigation and approval within your company, anywho. So, notifying your customer should be no BIG whoop. 4) change in SMT Line we run the product => No problem. You�re not going to change the line configuration without substantial prior investigation and approval within your company, anywho. So, notifying your customer should be no BIG whoop. 5) process flow changes => No problem. You�re not going to change the process without substantial prior investigation and approval within your company, anywho. So, notifying your customer should be no BIG whoop. 6) change of equipment/machine used to produce the product => Not much of a problem. While you may want the freedom to choose between alternate resources to build a job, based on production schedule requirements, this should be accomplished easily in the clever approach you take in defining �alternate resources�. As long as the alternate resources have comparable capabilities, and you specify them to your customer, one machine is the same as the next. 7) etc... => Whatever.

Finally, you should pass this requirement on to your suppliers, especially your board fabricator.

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ianchan

#19387

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

interesting point... that's what our manager was fret about, "pulling out" eh?

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Darby

#19389

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 3 April, 2002

There is another way around this.

Tell 'em nuttin'.

Do whatever suits your mob.

Do they still rave on about critical relationships and all that other feel-good business speak? Not too much much trust emanating from their corner is there?

I think Mr JAX may be right, or, as he says, "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"

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ianchan

#19390

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 4 April, 2002

In my own humble opinion, mebbe we should change the 30-days ADVANCE notification, into a WITHIN 30-days notification after commission of the ECN change?

On retroflect, bet all you guys are glad you are all using fake names and abbreviations in this forum, eh? as we had to bring in printed copies of some shared opinions as "air support"... is that legit?

Hail to Dilbert (that engineer smart bloke) !!!

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#19397

Engineering Change Notification - Required Timeline? | 5 April, 2002

Huh, what, geez. Wazza time Jimbo? Call me a cab.

Why is this gentleman retroflecting? Why would anyone make an articulatory gesture by turning the tip of the tongue back against the roof of the mouth?

I don't know what this is a bout, but I can assure you I am one bona fide Darby. Darby Jarvis. I don't know why my name didn't come up in blue and why I didn't have that little bloke's head, (he looks like a silhouette of Lou Reed from "Lou Reed Live"), beside the name. Webmaster - where have I sinned? You can call me anytime at 61 02 9844 6666 AEST during business hours. Ask for Bruce.

In the early 80's the Australian SMBCA sponsored a lecture tour by Mr. Bill Barley, Quality Manager for some mob called Solectron. They had just won a little trohpy called the Maclcolm Baldridge Award for Quality in the US of A. Some sort of politician presents it. I think Mr. Barley went on to do other things. Mr. Barley stayed at my brother, Chris', house at Dee Why. You can call him anytime via directory assistance. Ask for Roy.

We were in awe of this great man.

We had a couple of machines and some manuals.

He's talking six sigma, critical alliances, TQA, DFM, ROI - I hadn't even taken the plastic of the machines.

I was too scared to asked anything during the lectures in case I looked like a total dill. I didn't know what SOP stood for.

On day two at stumps, when Mr. Barley was munching on a Pumpkin scone, and no one else was around, I finally worked up the courage to ask a question.

"Mr. Barley, how do you figure out which jobs to make?"

"Darby, er, or is that Bruce, er, well ya know, er, I can't exactly tell you that, but, er, I can tell you this. Of the 100% of time we spend looking at customers, we spend 75% of that time rejecting them."

I never forgot it.

Mr. Barley, I hope I spelt your name correctly.

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