Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Commercial Postings

#17560

Commercial Postings | 11 September, 2001

I am concerned that the increased number of commercial postings on SMTnet is degrading the technical content and diverting valid posters� attention from the proper exchange of information to non-value added ranting and finger pointing.

In determining the appropriateness of a posting, I believe the measure is: "Who is benefiting from the posting?"

For example: * When a user has experience [good or bad] with a supplier and mentions that supplier, everyone benefits. * When anyone mentions multiple suppliers, everyone benefits. * When sales types mention only their principle and excludes quality suppliers, there is no question that this was done for the benefit of the sales type, because the sales type knows the competitors of their principle�s product, but chooses not list them. * When sales types concoct postings, there is no question that this was done for the benefit of the sales type. * When someone posts to a thread that is more than 6 months old, there is no question that this was done for the benefit of the sales type.

reply »

Michael Parker

#17563

Commercial Postings | 12 September, 2001

The recent increased frequency is an indicator of tough times and the sales types are mining for leads.

I concur with Dave's comments and would like to suggest the the SMTnet administrators contact offending parties directly admonishing them of shameless shilling and providing them with guidelines to appropriate communication for the forum.

A succinct and pithy form letter, along with a censor of their postings would be in order. If stuck for ideas on form letter composition, audit the community for suggestions.

Thank you

reply »

Roger

#17589

Commercial Postings | 13 September, 2001

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for some kind of regulation that explains what is worthy of getting posted. I think most of us are smart enough to tell when we are getting a sales pitch.

Keep in mind that flashing advertisements from industry suppliers are paying for this opportunity to exchange information. If they want to hop on a say a few things about their products, so be it.

reply »

Keith Luke

#17591

Commercial Postings | 13 September, 2001

I'd suggest that for each banner advertiser SMTnet create both an animated GIF and a non-animated rendition of the same basic advertisement, then use the ad manager to schedule it so that only one animated GIF appears on the page at one time. It would make the site much less busy and provide the same number of views to advertisers.

reply »

Ken Bliss

#17719

Commercial Postings | 26 September, 2001

It seems to me that this site is most helpful if anyone can supply a solutiion rather than just an idea to solve a persons problem. In many cases a simple piece of equipment or adjustment to a piece of equipment will solve a problem that the person doen not know about. I would think that frequently manufactures that monitor this site can offer assistance would be a good positive thing in addition to all other comments and ideas. I agree if someone has a major problem with a supplier that they have talked to the supplier about and could not resolve it should also be noted where appropriate. Of course everyone is mining for leads, isn't one persons problem the primary thing a good salesperson is suppose to help solve, its called value added selling. blatent none specific references to a companies product should not be posted but if it includes detailed information on how that will solve the problem mentiioned then that is a good thing. Additionaly, adding items to r-kives makes sense to me as you continue to build on a solution base, othewise why have the archive in the first place. Obviously SMTnet has to contiue to monitor the site and make appropriate adjustments.

reply »

Michael Parker

#17720

Commercial Postings | 26 September, 2001

My Opinion/Editorial-

Being a frequent (nearly daily) visitor to SMTnet I find postings by some sales types as being a shameless shilling to drum up business. We even experienced (most recently)an audacious posting that was thinly disguised as being a valid question, when in fact, it was a sales rep trying to set up a product.

This kind of thing is what got up the dander of more than a few and prompted the creation of this particular thread. There is no argument or suggestion that qualified experience and answers are not welcomed from the Sales community. I agree that they can (and have)provide "Value Added Services".

However, I would also encourage the Sysop the ability to remove or censor postings that are obvious shameless in intent. The very fact that this censorship could happen would act as a detriment to those that practice abuse of trust to the unsuspecting.

As a side note - the last few weeks have been relatively quiet of postings that are of the shameless nature previously described.

This opinion is solely independent and does not reflect the opinions of the SMTnet management.

reply »

#17722

Commercial Postings | 26 September, 2001

We agree in substance and what we are discussing is: degree and perception. There have been many useful, well thoughtout postings on SMTnet by sales types. And the intent of this discussion is to promote more of those contributions, because many sales types are exposed to a broader range of problems and their solutions than practitioners.

Upfront, I apologize if breaking-down your comments dilutes some intent, but the important part is getting on with the discussion. Commenting on your points �

�It seems to me that this site is most helpful if anyone can supply a solution rather than just an idea to solve a person�s problem.� Yes, a solution that has worked is superior to an idea that might work. So, we'd rather these tried solutions.

�In many cases a simple piece of equipment or adjustment to a piece of equipment will solve a problem that the person does not know about. I would think that frequently manufacturers that monitor this site could offer assistance that would be a good positive thing in addition to all other comments and ideas.� Yes, but that�s not the issue. The issue is balance. Some manufacturers and their representatives suggest solutions that focus only on their product, neglecting to propose a range of alternatives. Other manufacturers and their representatives propose solutions that recognize their competitors� products. The art becomes crafting a posting that is responsive, balanced, and promotes the manufacturer as a contributor.

�I agree if someone has a major problem with a supplier that they have talked to the supplier about and could not resolve it should also be noted where appropriate.� Yes, it would be nice if more suppliers monitored and responded to the postings of specific problems in their equipment. In past years, some equipment users posted blistering rants about products, often out of frustration with their perception of poor response by the supplier. We don�t see that much nowadays.

Continuing, questions about the capabilities of or solving problems with specific equipment often don�t receive proper attention. Now, that�s a great sales opportunity where no one would suggest that a competitor should be recognized as an alternate solution. Guessing, questions of that type are maybe 20% of the postings on SMTnet.

�Of course everyone is mining for leads, isn't one persons problem the primary thing a good salesperson is suppose to help solve, its called value added selling.� Yes, mining for leads is good. Solving problems is good. Value-added selling is good.

�Blatant nonspecific references to a company�s product should not be posted, but if it includes detailed information on how that will solve the problem mentioned then that is a good thing.� Yes, advertisements should appear as banners, not as postings to threads. Some sales types post technical information that includes more than one potential supplier. Those that post information, but only reference a single supplier are kidding no one in their intent. And those are the people that we are talking about here.

�Additionally, adding items to archives makes sense to me as you continue to build on a solution base, otherwise why have the archive in the first place.� Agreed. The SMTnet Archives is a valuable resource, especially for someone seeking answers NOW and willing to acknowledge that their problem may not be unique.

�Obviously SMTnet has to continue to monitor the site and make appropriate adjustments.� Sounds good, but SMTnet administrators� ability to make �appropriate adjustments� is limited. While they can screen clearly inappropriate original postings, their ability / willingness to make close calls on follow-up postings is not as clear-cut. And well it should be. They should not be the filter, Forum participants should responsible. Sales-types should be disciplined in their postings to focus on the needs of SMTnet first and their principal second. If they don�t, the attention they will draw will focus more attention on the appropriateness of their posting than the potential effectiveness of their product in providing the solution the poster seeks.

reply »

J.D.

#17726

Commercial Postings | 27 September, 2001

Dave, I agree with most everything you have put forth in response to the blatant sales pitches. I myself have been guilty of coming close to this point. The one thing that I don't agree with you on is this point:

* When sales types mention only their principle and excludes quality suppliers, there is no question that this was done for the benefit of the sales type, because the sales type knows the competitors of their principle�s product, but chooses not list them.

The reason I don't agree with you on this is that I have no confidence in the ability of my competitors to truly know my product. Yes, I know more than my competitors would like me to know about them but it is mostly negative things. If I trotted out every negative issue I know of every time a competitor's piece of equipment was mentioned, I certainly would not make any friends here. This to me is not constructive nor wanted. It to me is about playing fair and holding a certain code of honor. I want to sell things on the basis of my equipment's benefits and clearly superior features. The only way I can do this is to stick to what I know which is the equipment I am paid to sell. I expect this of every other sales person who logs onto this forum. If they don't log on to mention thier take on a certain problem then that is there problem not mine. If every "sales-type" did this it would insure that the information everyone receives on this site is verifiable and true. Now I am not naive enough to believe this will happen but I want to assure you or anyone else who reads this that I will stick to what I know and not speculate on the capability of my competitors products.

Sincerely,

J.D. of PFA - Create

reply »

Brian Doyle

#17729

Commercial Postings | 27 September, 2001

We [SMTnet] have a rule that we do not allow commercial postings. We also recognize that there is a gray area. Blantant posts are always taken down as soon as we see them (or someone points them out to me: bpdoyle@smtnet.com) and followed up on.

Sometimes commercial postings solve the problem of the original poster though, this is the real gray area. Both Dave and Ken's comments address that pretty well. We stay out of those issues. As for having one company mention another company's products while suggesting their own...I think this could lead down to a path that would not be very good. For example, Company A mentions Company B's product. Company B does not like the way that Company A referred to it therefore they fire back. Downward spiral.

I'd rather see the company not post an ad in response to a question but rather discretely reccomend a solution.

As always if you feel that a particular posting is out of place, please feel free to let me know: bpdoyle@smtnet.com

Also while I have you attention, if you have _any_ feedback about SMTnet drop us a line.

Brian Doyle Lead Software Designer SMTnet.com

reply »

#17731

Commercial Postings | 27 September, 2001

JD

I agree with everything that you said. Good pledge!!!

Let me try to be clearer. I appreciate that no one wants to start or participate in a �negative selling battle�, where they are forced to say negative things about their competitors� products or defend negative things said about their products. And I�m not proposing that anyone start doing that, because as much as sellers dislike doing that, I dislike hearing it. I get irritated by people that speak half-truths and innuendo about another supplier, because they force me to run-down those statements with the other supplier, which irritates the other supplier, and then makes that supplier want to respond in-kind, which then could force me onto another round of verification.

The creditability of one seller that is down-selling another�s product is very low. In fact as you say, one seller has no business commenting on another seller�s product in this forum.

Let me be more specific about my point. I�m not suggesting anything of the nature of negative selling or talking-down competitors� products. * On one hand, I�d prefer a simple listing of the companies and contacts for two or more potential suppliers of products or services that could solve the problem at hand. * On the other hand, I recognize there are limits to all of our better natures. [Most of us still have those nutritional problems.] And this IS a GREAT platform to discuss solutions to problems. And if the responses were limited to "Here, go check with these suppliers ... ", we'd miss-out on GREAT opportunites for exchanging, questioning, and discussing ideas. * So as a middle ground, it seems reasonable to allow promotion of a single product as a perfect solution to a problem, but the posting should close with wording to the effect of: �Other potential suppliers of this product are:� [followed by a telephone book-like list of suppliers]. That�s it. No diatribes, no discussion of competitors� product features or lack there of, just a simple recognition of the alternate suppliers that could be considered. And here�s a real bone, the list doesn�t even have to be complete or include the top suppliers. * If that concession is so heretical that it makes the sellers stomach boil: Say what you have to say, but reference no company names or products and close with a link to your e-mail address.

This allows forum members to benefit from a broad range of experience and perspectives. It gives sellers an opportunity to promote their product.

Finally, those sellers that seek the ultimate platform to promote their product on SMTnet, virtually uncontested, should arrange an On-Board Forum appearance.

reply »

#17734

Commercial Postings | 27 September, 2001

Would I want to turn the animations back on then?

reply »

HeatShield Gel- thermal PCB shield during reflow

Real-time PCB X-ray Inspection System