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What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow

Carol Stirling

#17515

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Could someone recommend the pressure for cleaning PWBs after reflow please? Also, if there is a wash system you find satisfactory, the name, phone and location would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Carol (Excuse the typo in the Thread -I didn't know how to fix it)

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Hussman

#17516

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Wut-chuw talkin' 'bout Carol?

Are you talking about an aqueous wash machine to clean your boards? Well then, I've always liked Electroverts machines. They're modular and seem to do the job well. It all depends on your boards and your process.

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#17517

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Hi Carol,

Pressure requirements have changed over the past few years. In the recent past, aqueous cleaning systems relied on high flow, low pressure �flooding� techniques. 20 � 30 PSI pumped through large orifice nozzles. With ever increasing board densities, decreasing component standoff heights, and aggressive �no-clean� profiles, the need for wider, finer nozzle diffusion (requiring higher pressures) has never been greater.

Modern aqueous cleaning systems utilize higher pressure spray systems with lower flow rates. Exact pressure is somewhat brand dependent. Batch-format aqueous cleaners (dishwasher type) range from 30 PSI to 90 PSI. Inline cleaners utilize higher pressures (due to their limited contact time with a board). Inline pressures, also brand and model dependent, range from 50 PSI to 120 PSI. Stoelting seems to be the king of pressure (and price).

Forgive the duplication of a recent posting, but some of the manufacturers of aqueous cleaning systems include:

Aqueous Technologies (batch and inline): http://www.aqueoustech.com Unit Design (batch): http://www.unitdesign.com Technical Devices: (inline): http://www.technicaldev.com EMC (batch and inline): http://www.emcgti.com Speedline (batch and inline): http://www.speedlinetechnologies.com Austin America (batch and inline): http://www.aat-corp.com Trek Industries (inline): http://www.trekindustries.com Stoelting (inline): http://www.stoelting.com

Hope this helps!

Michael Konrad Aqueous Technologies

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Sean D

#17521

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Hello Everyone,

Speedline Technologies' Electrovert Division does offer a number of batch and in-line systems for your cleaning application. A good contact for you to reach to discuss the details of your application would be Bill Boyde at the factory. The Electrovert factory also has a demo/test lab which you could visit to discuss and test your process. The main phone number for the Electrovert Facility is 573-346-3341. You can also find more information at http://www.speedlinetechnologies.com

As a representative of Speedline, I would be happy to assist you in locating your local representative. Please feel free to contact me if there are any questions or concerns.

Best Regards, Sean D. 480-829-8170 ext.14

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#17522

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Watt tiepoo? [Cereally, you can usually fix typos after you post by using the P yellow �edit� button that shows when you are looking at your posting.]

We�re had people on SMTnet that were washing their boards with a brush attached to the end of a garden hose. We have used to use a Sears dish washer. You choice of type of cleaner is based on your ability to spend money and throughput requirements. The two primary types of cleaners are: 1 Batch 2 In-line

Many would argue that you should use a cleaner that is designed to wash PCA. Washer sales types are the most exuberant adherents of that perspective. Excellent suppliers are: * Batch: Accel, Aqueous Technologies, Austin American, EMC, Hotpack, Unit Design, Raygo [Some of these people are acquiring each other and are being acquired by others.] * In-line: Electrovert [ugly looking, but good cleaning], Trek, H2O/EMC

Recognize that: * Helium welding plastic is NOT rocket science. So, the supplier should bring something else to the party. In some cases, what else they bring is unclear. * Water pressure is not the issue. For years the plastic welders have upped pump pressure with that idea in mind. You should not be trying to blast the residue from the board. * Getting a clean board is the issue. Generally, this means getting as much water as possible in contact with water soluble res, so that it can get into solution.

Finally when you think about cleaners, also consider: * Quality requirements and consistency of your in-bound water. If you�re going to treat your in-bound water, how does that fit with your purchase decision? * Waste disposal plan. If you�re going direct to drain, does your water PTO approve? If you�re going to treat your waste, how does that fit with your purchase decision? * Machine maintenance. Cleaning these hogs is NOT fun. * Process control. If you�re going to clean boards, how do you check your process to be sure they�re clean? * Future cleaning needs. How will you clean no-clean? How will you clean whatever flux you end-up with for no-lead? etc. * Personal investment plans. Consider buying stock in your local electricity suppier.

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Kevin Facinelli

#17523

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

We have two batch systems installed from Aqueous Technologies and have been very please with there performance and reliability. One machine is utilizing a 5hp pump and generates 60psi the other is a 3hp version and is about 40psi. I think the most important element is chemistry and positioning of your boards in the machine.

In line machines possibly would give a greater degree of pressure but I am not sure this means you necessarily get a cleaner product in the end especially if other variables having a greater impact are not optimized. The batch cleaners are great for low to medium volume. We have designs with FP QFP's and BGA's and feel very confident in our ability to clean the product.

Only comment I have is the need for a cleaner to brighten up the stainless steel in these systems.....they get dull in appearance......anyone have a suggestion?

Good luck and let me know if I can help,

Kevin

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#17524

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

Now that I've blabbered to the edge of coherency [chicks and too many Krispy Kreams make me do that], let me ask ask the salient question. What's an "AMT board"?

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Michael Parker

#17525

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

That would be the elusive typo, check your keyboard, the "A" is right next to the "S". I believe she meant "SMT" boards. Wazzup Dave, your grey matter already shifted into weekend mode?

Hoist a pint of Sierra Nevada, if you get that spill in your neck of the woods.

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#17526

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

You seem to have slipped and turned to the dark side with Kevin. Straighten-up Mr X-Applications type.

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Kevin Facinelli

#17527

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 7 September, 2001

I am just giving my experiences as I see them. I think it helps to hear what is and what is not working..in the future I will refrain from mentioning suppliers but the question was specific as to QUOTE:"Also, if there is a wash system you find satisfactory, the name, phone and location would be appreciated."

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#17531

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 8 September, 2001

Clever.

Yes, leave it to me to have a firm grasp on the obvious. I looked for the elusive spelling error, couldn't find it, forgot about it, let it come back and make me look like a dope for the second time in one thread. Ummm.

If only every US microbrewer produced the variety and quality of Sierra Nevada. SN Pale Ale is in fairly wide distribution and is pretty good beer, but I'm not a big fan of pale ales [unless, of course, someone gives it to me, then it's OUT-standing!!!]. Now, in the rare occasions that I see Brandywine, it's "knock over the old ladies and kids" to get it first. The lagers are good, but I'm stuck on Tennents. I haven't seen the wheat, but would like to try it.

It's summer and wheat is THE beer of choice [US/Blue Moon => good : Imported/Hoegaarden Original => very good]. Finish mowing the lawn, plop-down in a chair on the back porch, fumigate the neighborhood with an A Feunte, and smile about having a cold wheat beer in hand with those little rivlets of condensed moisure coursing the sides of the bottle to form little circular puddles on the table. Ummm, nice.

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#17532

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 8 September, 2001

Your reply was NOT out-of line. You're correct and I'm wrong. I apologize.

I'm sorry I referenced your name incorrectly and implied things about you that I didn't mean. I should have said KerryN, when speaking of the dark side.

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Carol Stirling

#17542

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 10 September, 2001

That's my Typo... couldn't figure out how to fix it. It should read SMT -boards with lots of SMT parts, including PBGA. I'll be more specific next time....

Thanks for the replies..

Carol

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zbosskc@netscape.net

#17544

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 10 September, 2001

We currently use 120 psi top pressure and 110 psi bottom pressure using a Westek Triton DI wash and have had no cleanliness issues with any of our vendors and with surface analysis.

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#17552

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 11 September, 2001

Yes, you cannot change the "subject" that you enter when first beginning a tread. This is what will appear on the Main Conference.

You can change the very same "subject" as it appears when the thread is selected in one of the Forums with "edit" or when replying to a thread.

Some would suggest that this comes from the "didn't do well at dodge ball" syndrome that affects many web software types.

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Boca

#17582

What pressure is recommended to clean AMT boards after reflow | 12 September, 2001

The quip; All you can get!

By the way, worthy answers above, especially Dave F getting a little tied up is good to see, he's always on the money otherwise.

But seriously, watch for damage to other components. Example; thru hole's such as radial caps with sleeving can get water driven under the sleeving. The test guys don't like the water dribbling out during high voltage test.

Boca

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