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Wayne Bracy

#15038

Placement of 0201' | 14 July, 1998

Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? thanks

Wayne

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JMCoogan

#15056

Re: Placement of 0201' | 14 July, 1998

Wayne We (Universal Instruments) started demonstrating the placement of 0201 chips at the last Productronica show in Germany. But at this point in time, you will be hard pressed to find anyone using it in production (although the placement equipment can handle it). There are still several process issues that need to be ironed out, not the least among them, pad design and stencil characteristics. Our SM Process Lab is currently conducting research in these areas. Will they be used in production? I would answer by asking a question... do you remember what people used to say when the 0402's first came out? Regards J. Coogan

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Dave Kalen

#15042

Re: Placement of 0201' | 15 July, 1998

| Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | thanks | | Wayne We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia.

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Panasonic Create

#15039

Re: Placement of 0201' | 15 July, 1998

| Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | thanks | | Wayne Wayne, We have 3 customers currently that have qualified the 0201. We have a pad design and design quidelines in place.

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Dave F

#15040

Re: Placement of 0201' | 20 July, 1998

| | Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | | thanks | | | | Wayne | Wayne, We have 3 customers currently that have qualified the 0201. We have a pad design and design quidelines in place. Panasonic Create: What (Where) are your pad design and design quidelines that you have in-place? Dave F

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WAYNE

#15041

Re: Placement of 0201' | 21 July, 1998

| Panasonic Create: What (Where) are your pad design and design quidelines that you have in-place? Dave F Dave" Thanks for the response. Many people I have talked with are interested in 201's, but are not placing at this time. I am curious about the: Placement accuracy, Bill Boarding problems, nozzle pickup and inspection on the fly?? Will there be a bulk feeder available? Wayne

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WAYNE

#15053

Re: Placement of 0201' | 21 July, 1998

Wayne | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia. Dave: Thanks for the response. Sorry, for not responding earlier, but I have been away from the computer for a few days working >(fishing).. Has Sanyo developed a bulk feeder for 201's and do you feel that bulk feeding will be the next big move in placement equipment? In New England people are talking bulk feeding, but few people have elected to go that way. As with most things, We New Englanders seem to wait and see and not jump into anything quickly. Wayne

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Justin Medernach

#15044

Re: Placement of 0201' | 21 July, 1998

| | Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | | thanks | | | | Wayne | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia. Dave, How's the pick and place reliability with the Sanyo on 0201s? Is it a fairly consistent process (Are the alarms and lights sounding and flashing every five minutes due to a false parts exhausts or vacuum loss?) E.g. are the operators suffering through this one and hitting restart / alarm buttons on a frequent basis? I'm just curious. I work in a prototype environment and see all sorts of new packaging trends and, suprisingly, haven't yet encountered the 0201. What are you doing with aperture openings and stencil thickness? Are you running a no-clean process or are you cleaning in some manner? Have you gone to a fine pitch powder? (Type 4 or 5) Are there unforseen process problems like tombstoning, etc? Have you looked into legal crap like proprietary aperture designs. I didn't know it but some of these pick and place vendors actually have patents on things like pad and aperture geometry. Personally, I think that's crazy and shouldn't be allowed but that's just my opinion. Hope you respond to this. Eager to learn. Best Regards, Justin Medernach

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JM Coogan

#15055

Re: Placement of 0201' | 21 July, 1998

Wayne SANYO is focusing on the bulk feeder design concept developed and licensed by Taiyoyuden Co., Ltd of Japan (instead of the Nitto Kogyo, i.e. pneumatic design). They are making very good progress with 0402C and 0603C components. So far, we have only received 0201C's in paper tape, from Murata. I think they may be a good bulk feeder application, but it will take a while. The SANYO chip shooter handles the 0201's very well. I first saw them run them at INTERNEPCON Japan 2 years ago in the Nissei Sangyo booth. After that, we (Universal) ran them during Productronica and NEPCON West with very good results. FYI - they require a special nozzle. Please e-mail me at coogan@uic.com if you have more questions. I'll be glad to answer your questions. J. Coogan

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Steve Gregory

#15047

Re: Placement of 0201'...patents on stencil openings? SHEESH! | 21 July, 1998

On Tuesday 21, July, Justin wrote: >>Have you looked into legal crap like >>proprietary aperture designs. I didn't know it >>but some of these pick and place vendors >>actually have patents on things like pad and >>aperture geometry. Personally, I think that's >>crazy and shouldn't be allowed but that's just >>my opinion. Hope you respond to this. Eager >>to learn. >>Best Regards, >>Justin Medernach Hi Justin... Well, just about when I think I've heard it all, I hear something new. I can't believe it...patenting stencil holes...are we that cut-throat? Seems it was just a month or so ago, that there was a thread about Matushita (Panasonic) having the patent on using epoxy to attach components to the bottomside of PCB's for wave solder...what was worse, they had the thing since 1982 and were just now trying to enforce it...man o' man!! Justin, if you don't mind, who is saying they have a patent on stencil openings? What shape(s) is it? I just wanna make sure I'm not "stealing" someones idea... Oh by the way, just to let everyone know, I've got a patent on using tweezers to repostion mis-placed surface mount components...from now on, nobody can do that without giving me five bucks, or two oil-cans of ice cold Fosters Bitters with a shooter of Rumpleminz on the side 8^) -Steve Gregory-

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Justin Medernach

#15048

Re: Placement of 0201'...patents on stencil openings? SHEESH! | 22 July, 1998

| On Tuesday 21, July, Justin wrote: | >>Have you looked into legal crap like >>proprietary aperture designs. I didn't know it >>but some of these pick and place vendors >>actually have patents on things like pad and >>aperture geometry. Personally, I think that's >>crazy and shouldn't be allowed but that's just >>my opinion. Hope you respond to this. Eager >>to learn. | >>Best Regards, | >>Justin Medernach | Hi Justin... | Well, just about when I think I've heard it all, I hear something new. I can't believe it...patenting stencil holes...are we that cut-throat? Seems it was just a month or so ago, that there was a thread about Matushita (Panasonic) having the patent on using epoxy to attach components to the bottomside of PCB's for wave solder...what was worse, they had the thing since 1982 and were just now trying to enforce it...man o' man!! | Justin, if you don't mind, who is saying they have a patent on stencil openings? What shape(s) is it? I just wanna make sure I'm not "stealing" someones idea... | Oh by the way, just to let everyone know, I've got a patent on using tweezers to repostion mis-placed surface mount components...from now on, nobody can do that without giving me five bucks, or two oil-cans of ice cold Fosters Bitters with a shooter of Rumpleminz on the side 8^) | -Steve Gregory- Hey Steve, I think it was Matsushita, again. Them buggers have everything. I'll check with my dad. He works for 'em (chump......just kiddin'). I owe you about 2 full kegs of Fosters and 8 cases of Rumpleminz or you can just put 'em on my tab. Justin Medernach

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Wayne

#15049

SHEESH! | 23 July, 1998

Justin: I work for your Dad so find out for both of us.... and as for Matsushita they are not buggers! See just try to start a little conversation and look at the trouble one can get into. Have a nice weekend. Wayne

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Alex Ondi

#15051

Re: SHEESH! | 24 July, 1998

I also heard of a company considering a patent on aperture design. The aperture was a "chevron" aperture, very similar to the "V" shaped aperture recently touted in SMT magazine, presumably for the purpose of reducing solder balls. Go figure!

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Justin Medernach

#15050

Sorry Wayne, don't tell my dad! | 24 July, 1998

| Justin: | I work for your Dad so find out for both of us.... | and as for Matsushita they are not buggers! | See just try to start a little conversation and look at the trouble one can get into. | Have a nice weekend. | Wayne Wayne, That was an affectionate "bugger". Had I said "little buggers," it would have been offensive. Justin

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Ben Salisbury

#15052

Re: SHEESH! | 24 July, 1998

I've got a patent on hitting a machine with a hammer, when it doesn't do what I want. heh...Ben

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Dave Kalen

#15046

Re: Placement of 0201' | 3 August, 1998

| | | Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | | | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | | | thanks | | | | | | Wayne | | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia. | Dave, | How's the pick and place reliability with the Sanyo on 0201s? Is it a fairly consistent process (Are the alarms and lights sounding and flashing every five minutes due to a false parts exhausts or vacuum loss?) E.g. are the operators suffering through this one and hitting restart / alarm buttons on a frequent basis? I'm just curious. I work in a prototype environment and see all sorts of new packaging trends and, suprisingly, haven't yet encountered the 0201. What are you doing with aperture openings and stencil thickness? Are you running a no-clean process or are you cleaning in some manner? Have you gone to a fine pitch powder? (Type 4 or 5) Are there unforseen process problems like tombstoning, etc? Have you looked into legal crap like proprietary aperture designs. I didn't know it but some of these pick and place vendors actually have patents on things like pad and aperture geometry. Personally, I think that's crazy and shouldn't be allowed but that's just my opinion. Hope you respond to this. Eager to learn. | Best Regards, | Justin Medernach

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Dave Kalen

#15045

Re: Placement of 0201' | 3 August, 1998

| | | Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | | | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | | | thanks | | | | | | Wayne | | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia. | Dave, | How's the pick and place reliability with the Sanyo on 0201s? Is it a fairly consistent process (Are the alarms and lights sounding and flashing every five minutes due to a false parts exhausts or vacuum loss?) E.g. are the operators suffering through this one and hitting restart / alarm buttons on a frequent basis? I'm just curious. I work in a prototype environment and see all sorts of new packaging trends and, suprisingly, haven't yet encountered the 0201. What are you doing with aperture openings and stencil thickness? Are you running a no-clean process or are you cleaning in some manner? Have you gone to a fine pitch powder? (Type 4 or 5) Are there unforseen process problems like tombstoning, etc? Have you looked into legal crap like proprietary aperture designs. I didn't know it but some of these pick and place vendors actually have patents on things like pad and aperture geometry. Personally, I think that's crazy and shouldn't be allowed but that's just my opinion. Hope you respond to this. Eager to learn. | Best Regards, | Justin Medernach

Justin, There are many problems that you mentioned that will definitely come up and bite those unawares... Our machines are handling the parts w/o problems, for the rest of all of the particular problems, I have not seen it in person, so, can t tell you specifics.....

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Dave Kalen

#15054

Re: Placement of 0201' | 3 August, 1998

| Wayne | | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia. | Dave: | Thanks for the response. Sorry, for not responding earlier, but I have been away from the computer for a few days working >(fishing).. | Has Sanyo developed a bulk feeder for 201's and do you feel that bulk feeding will be the next big move in placement equipment? | In New England people are talking bulk feeding, but few people have elected to go that way. | As with most things, We New Englanders seem to wait and see and not jump into anything quickly. | Wayne I have not seen the bulkfeeder in operation yet for the 0201. According to sources at the factory, it does exist. I have not been privy to seeing it yet. I know that bulk feeding will become popular as the cost of packaging is the only unaffected portion of that business... Everything else has had to get better and better..... Here in the states, we just have 2 customers that are using bulk.

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Jim Price

#15043

Re: Placement of 0201' | 4 August, 1998

| | Recently at the Nepcon show I saw Panasonic KME placing 0201's, must say | | with my olde eyes it was hard for me to even see the little buggers. Wondering if any of you are placing 0201's? what are the pros & cons, UPH, and what equipment you are using? | | thanks | | The Panasert MV2F and MSHIII places 0201's jst fine. There are almost no North American companies using these at this time. | | Wayne | We have been placing 0201's with our SANYO chipshooters for over 3 years. We don't see any manufacturers here in the USA using them, but, they are prevalent in Asia.

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ii-feed SMD Intelligent Feeder

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