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Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Adrian

#14930

Philips FCM | 22 July, 1998

I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. Can somebody advise me if this is true?

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Brad Kendall

#14933

Re: Philips FCM | 23 July, 1998

| I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | Can somebody advise me if this is true? Adrian, We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the rotation you tell it to...everytime. Brad Kendall Hella Electronics Corp.

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Timm

#14935

Re: Philips FCM | 23 July, 1998

| | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | Adrian, | We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! | Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other | high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part | and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it | to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position | at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. | I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling | at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, | you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! | It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. | We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) | I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the | rotation you tell it to...everytime. | Brad Kendall | Hella Electronics Corp. Adrian, Take a look at FUJI's QP-132 machine. It is very similer, in concept, to the FCM with the exception of a full grey scale vision system. This will eleiminate the Polarity issue if it were to come up. I have seen SOT type components packaged 180deg. out. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time. Timm

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Brad Kendall

#14936

Re: Philips FCM | 24 July, 1998

| | | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | | Adrian, | | We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! | | Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other | | high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part | | and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it | | to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position | | at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. | | I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling | | at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, | | you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! | | It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. | | We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) | | I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the | | rotation you tell it to...everytime. | | Brad Kendall | | Hella Electronics Corp. | Adrian, | Take a look at FUJI's QP-132 machine. It is very similer, in concept, to the FCM with the exception of a full grey scale vision system. This will eleiminate the Polarity issue if it were to come up. I have seen SOT type components packaged 180deg. out. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time. | Timm Adrian, Be aware that the Fuji machine is also 4 times the size of the FCM. If you have that kind of room on your production floor that you can spare because you are worried about the polarity of a part out of a real, more power to you. Overall the FCM has the highest throughput per square foot of floor space in the industry. They also have many new features on the FCM Base 2 that eliminate the changeover fears people have. With universal carrier sets, feeder trollies, etc. you can change over a 96000 placements/hour (60,000 real time)machine in 5-15 minutes! You can now get wide feeder bars as well, so you are no longer limited to SOIC16 or less on the FCM. Look at the service, support, and spare parts too, Philips is outstanding in this area! Oh, as far as a SOT part being backward in a reel...been assembling boards 12 years and putting out a board every 10 seconds now, have yet to see one backward. Good luck. Brad Kendall Manufacturing Engineer Hella Electronics Corp.

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Adrian

#14938

Re: Philips FCM | 27 July, 1998

| | | | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | | | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | | | Adrian, | | | We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! | | | Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other | | | high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part | | | and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it | | | to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position | | | at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. | | | I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling | | | at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, | | | you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! | | | It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. | | | We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) | | | I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the | | | rotation you tell it to...everytime. | | | Brad Kendall | | | Hella Electronics Corp. | | Adrian, | | Take a look at FUJI's QP-132 machine. It is very similer, in concept, to the FCM with the exception of a full grey scale vision system. This will eleiminate the Polarity issue if it were to come up. I have seen SOT type components packaged 180deg. out. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time. | | Timm | Adrian, | Be aware that the Fuji machine is also 4 times the size of the FCM. If you have that kind of room on your production | floor that you can spare because you are worried about the polarity of a part out of a real, more power to you. Overall | the FCM has the highest throughput per square foot of floor space in the industry. They also have many new features on the | FCM Base 2 that eliminate the changeover fears people have. With universal carrier sets, feeder trollies, etc. you can change | over a 96000 placements/hour (60,000 real time)machine in 5-15 minutes! You can now get wide feeder bars as well, so you are no longer | limited to SOIC16 or less on the FCM. Look at the service, support, and spare parts too, Philips is outstanding in this area! | Oh, as far as a SOT part being backward in a reel...been assembling boards 12 years and putting out a board every 10 seconds | now, have yet to see one backward. Good luck. | Brad Kendall | Manufacturing Engineer | Hella Electronics Corp. Brad, Timm, Thank you very much for your informative comments. I really appreciated them. Thanks again. Adrian

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Vincent Robert

#14934

Re: Philips FCM | 27 July, 1998

| | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | Adrian, | We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! | Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other | high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part | and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it | to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position | at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. | I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling | at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, | you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! | It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. | We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) | I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the | rotation you tell it to...everytime. | Brad Kendall | Hella Electronics Corp. Adrian, I am also a user of Philips FCM and we recently faced a big problem where our SOT23 package was supplied in the wrong direction. Apparently, these components were meant for another customer. Our operator did not realise this and placed cartridge on the machine. It was only after 32 PCBs were produced that this problem was realised. We had previously also faced SOT component package misorientation, but they were completely rejected on our Fuji CP-6 machine.

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Jim Price

#14931

Re: Philips FCM | 4 August, 1998

| I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | Can somebody advise me if this is true? The FCM system is a good machine. However, even with the quick change over kit, change over times are much longer than most high volume houses are willing to live with.

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Timm

#14937

Re: Philips FCM | 13 August, 1998

| | | | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. | | | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | | | Adrian, | | | We have an FCM and I would not trade it for anything else! | | | Now, about your question, the FCM is no different than any other | | | high speed machine in that it follows a program that picks the part | | | and puts it in the right rotation, and places it. If you tell it | | | to place a SOT23 at 180, it will ALWAYS place that part in that position | | | at 180. The only exception would be if the part was in the reel backwards. | | | I have never seen one backward in the reel and if I did I would be yelling | | | at my component vendor loudly! No, the FCM does not check polarity, | | | you program it to pick in a rotation and place in a rotation, thats it! | | | It is a great machine, ours just runs and runs with little to no problems. | | | We are currently putting out a board every 10.5 seconds with it (about 80-100 placements.) | | | I hope this answers your question. Basically it will place the part in the | | | rotation you tell it to...everytime. | | | Brad Kendall | | | Hella Electronics Corp. | | Adrian, | | Take a look at FUJI's QP-132 machine. It is very similer, in concept, to the FCM with the exception of a full grey scale vision system. This will eleiminate the Polarity issue if it were to come up. I have seen SOT type components packaged 180deg. out. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time. | | Timm | Adrian, | Be aware that the Fuji machine is also 4 times the size of the FCM. If you have that kind of room on your production | floor that you can spare because you are worried about the polarity of a part out of a real, more power to you. Overall | the FCM has the highest throughput per square foot of floor space in the industry. They also have many new features on the | FCM Base 2 that eliminate the changeover fears people have. With universal carrier sets, feeder trollies, etc. you can change | over a 96000 placements/hour (60,000 real time)machine in 5-15 minutes! You can now get wide feeder bars as well, so you are no longer | limited to SOIC16 or less on the FCM. Look at the service, support, and spare parts too, Philips is outstanding in this area! | Oh, as far as a SOT part being backward in a reel...been assembling boards 12 years and putting out a board every 10 seconds | now, have yet to see one backward. Good luck. | Brad Kendall | Manufacturing Engineer | Hella Electronics Corp. Adrian and Brad, For your mutual benifit, the QP-132 machine is only 8.5' longer than the FCM. 18.7' versus 10.2'. The changeover time is very minimal due to the PFU (Power Feeder Unit) They roll out and the new PFU rolls in with new feeders. Feeder replenishment can be accomplished on the fly by splicing onto the old tape. As far as speed... The FCM is specified at 96,000 CPH with real time rates of 60,000 as per Brad with laser or mechanical centering. Tha QP-132 is specified at 133,000 and real time rates of 96,000 with full vision processing. If you require any further information feel free to contact me. Timm

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Bill West

#14932

Re: Philips FCM vs Siemens | 25 August, 1998

| | | I am considering of Philips FCM for the next production. Jim, I think I would take the Phillips machine over the Fuji also, but have you looked at the Siemens F4 or F4/6. We are a Siplace house here, and we have been very happy with the equipment and service. Bill. | | But I have heard a rumour saying this machine is not capable for checking the lead polarity due to the laser scan system. | | i.e. SOT might be populated in wrong direction. | | Can somebody advise me if this is true? | The FCM system is a good machine. However, even with the quick change over kit, change over times are much longer than most high volume houses are willing to live with.

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Reflow Oven