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Jim Lewis

#14910

real placement rates | 22 July, 1998

Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment??

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The Wretched SMD

#14912

Re: real placement rates | 23 July, 1998

| Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment?? Our SMT line is also low Vol/High mix. We have a major bottleneck with our outdated Philips CSM-a great machine but very old. Our printer will screen >200 boards/Hr and oven will reflow ~180 boards/Hr but the P&P machine will only place 700-950 CPH when setup is taken into account. Minimum pitch is normally .020" and we place an Avg. of 491 TSSOPs and 217 BGAs a month. We don't even bother with 0402s. Placement totals: 1996: 1.75M 1997: 3.04M 1998: 3.9M (estimate) We had to run a C shift at several points last year to meet demand. We also spend a lot on overtime. We plan to purchase another P&P machine fairly soon. Probably a Philips Emerald. I believe a 4,000-4,500 CPH placement rate is a good target with the combined line and dedicated equipment.

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Justin Medernach

#14913

Re: real placement rates | 24 July, 1998

| | Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment?? | Our SMT line is also low Vol/High mix. We have a major bottleneck with our outdated Philips CSM-a great machine but very old. | Our printer will screen >200 boards/Hr and oven will reflow ~180 boards/Hr but the P&P machine will only place 700-950 CPH | when setup is taken into account. Minimum pitch is normally .020" and we place an Avg. of 491 TSSOPs and 217 BGAs a month. | We don't even bother with 0402s. | Placement totals: | 1996: 1.75M | 1997: 3.04M | 1998: 3.9M (estimate) | We had to run a C shift at several points last year to meet demand. We also spend a lot on overtime. | We plan to purchase another P&P machine fairly soon. Probably a Philips Emerald. I believe a 4,000-4,500 CPH placement rate | is a good target with the combined line and dedicated equipment. I've got the same type of environment but different toys. I have a Siplace 80f4 (They "f" does NOT stand for flexible, it should be some other unmentionable word) and an Amistar 5720 (Believe it or not, I love that thing). Both pieces of equipment have their advantages and drawbacks. the 5720 gives me about 4300 CPH and the 80f4 gives me about 8000 CPH. The key is to take advantage of optimization. Don't rely too heavily on the software for this one. It'll give you a rought idea but I guarantee, if you sit there and watch for a while, you'll see some changes that can be made to bump things up. Also, if you have a hand in the re-spinning of an artwork, orient like components in the same direction. This helps with speed and accuracy. Also, pre-kitting every thing on reels. Everyone knows capital is tight. It always is. Don't be afraid to invest in extra feeders. Even if it's just a few parts for now, pre-loading will signigicantly cut down change over time. Regards, Justin Medernach

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smd

#14914

Re: real placement rates | 24 July, 1998

| | | Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment?? | | Our SMT line is also low Vol/High mix. We have a major bottleneck with our outdated Philips CSM-a great machine but very old. | | Our printer will screen >200 boards/Hr and oven will reflow ~180 boards/Hr but the P&P machine will only place 700-950 CPH | | when setup is taken into account. Minimum pitch is normally .020" and we place an Avg. of 491 TSSOPs and 217 BGAs a month. | | We don't even bother with 0402s. | | Placement totals: | | 1996: 1.75M | | 1997: 3.04M | | 1998: 3.9M (estimate) | | We had to run a C shift at several points last year to meet demand. We also spend a lot on overtime. | | We plan to purchase another P&P machine fairly soon. Probably a Philips Emerald. I believe a 4,000-4,500 CPH placement rate | | is a good target with the combined line and dedicated equipment. | I've got the same type of environment but different toys. I have a Siplace 80f4 (They "f" does NOT stand for flexible, it should be some other unmentionable word) and an Amistar 5720 (Believe it or not, I love that thing). Both pieces of equipment have their advantages and drawbacks. the 5720 gives me about 4300 CPH and the 80f4 gives me about 8000 CPH. The key is to take advantage of optimization. Don't rely too heavily on the software for this one. It'll give you a rought idea but I guarantee, if you sit there and watch for a while, you'll see some changes that can be made to bump things up. Also, if you have a hand in the re-spinning of an artwork, orient like components in the same direction. This helps with speed and accuracy. Also, pre-kitting every thing on reels. Everyone knows capital is tight. It always is. Don't be afraid to invest in extra feeders. Even if it's just a few parts for now, pre-loading will signigicantly cut down change over time. | Regards, | Justin Medernach I've got a love-hate relationship with an Amistar TH inserter. We're sort of looking at the PlacePro and GSM but will most likely stay W. Philips. Siemens is too expensive. It's sort of like using a BMW 740il for taxi service. Anyways I agree with you on the feeders. I bought much, much more than the 84 that will fit on the machine so then I had to create a database to keep track of them all. I estimate that with a placement rate of 4,000 CPH and running one shift you could do up to 6.5M components/year. Would you agree? Aside from waffle tray and feeder accessories what would you recommend to improve speed and setup even further for Emerald/Topaz or PlacePro? BTW: I'm thinking of using the CSM84V as a dedicated cap/resistor/etc. machine.

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Justin Medernach

#14915

Re: real placement rates | 24 July, 1998

| | | | Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment?? | | | Our SMT line is also low Vol/High mix. We have a major bottleneck with our outdated Philips CSM-a great machine but very old. | | | Our printer will screen >200 boards/Hr and oven will reflow ~180 boards/Hr but the P&P machine will only place 700-950 CPH | | | when setup is taken into account. Minimum pitch is normally .020" and we place an Avg. of 491 TSSOPs and 217 BGAs a month. | | | We don't even bother with 0402s. | | | Placement totals: | | | 1996: 1.75M | | | 1997: 3.04M | | | 1998: 3.9M (estimate) | | | We had to run a C shift at several points last year to meet demand. We also spend a lot on overtime. | | | We plan to purchase another P&P machine fairly soon. Probably a Philips Emerald. I believe a 4,000-4,500 CPH placement rate | | | is a good target with the combined line and dedicated equipment. | | I've got the same type of environment but different toys. I have a Siplace 80f4 (They "f" does NOT stand for flexible, it should be some other unmentionable word) and an Amistar 5720 (Believe it or not, I love that thing). Both pieces of equipment have their advantages and drawbacks. the 5720 gives me about 4300 CPH and the 80f4 gives me about 8000 CPH. The key is to take advantage of optimization. Don't rely too heavily on the software for this one. It'll give you a rought idea but I guarantee, if you sit there and watch for a while, you'll see some changes that can be made to bump things up. Also, if you have a hand in the re-spinning of an artwork, orient like components in the same direction. This helps with speed and accuracy. Also, pre-kitting every thing on reels. Everyone knows capital is tight. It always is. Don't be afraid to invest in extra feeders. Even if it's just a few parts for now, pre-loading will signigicantly cut down change over time. | | Regards, | | Justin Medernach | I've got a love-hate relationship with an Amistar TH inserter. We're sort of looking at the PlacePro and GSM but will most likely stay W. Philips. Siemens is too expensive. It's sort of like using a BMW 740il for taxi service. Anyways I agree with you on the feeders. I bought much, much more than the 84 that will fit on the machine so then I had to create a database to keep track of them all. I estimate that with a placement rate of 4,000 CPH and running one shift you could do up to 6.5M components/year. Would you agree? Aside from waffle tray and feeder accessories what would you recommend to improve speed and setup even further for Emerald/Topaz or PlacePro? BTW: I'm thinking of using the CSM84V as a dedicated cap/resistor/etc. machine. I'm not sure who makes Amistar's TH stuff but the surface mount equipment is made by Tenyru. They make some impressive placement equipment. They're just sold by Amistar. I use my Siemen's machine as a passive placement machine right now. It's an expensive role but it's working really well. I can belt through all the secondary sides in half the time and then go through the top sides. It works pretty good. Sounds like you're on the right track. Regards, Justin Medernach

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Jim Price

#14911

Re: real placement rates | 5 August, 1998

| Does anyone have an idea of what a good placement rate (pph) is for a low volume, high mix smt line? We do small lots (10-300pcs), with a feeder count that ranges from 28 to 130 per setup. We have low volume machines (an old (real old) Siemens HS-180 and a Quad 4C / 136M2, running seperatly. Taking into account all the change overs, down time, etc, we get very low actual placement rates over an 8 hour shift. We are trying to come up with a benchmark to use for rough capacity planing, and to improve upon. What does anyone else get in a similar environment?? Jim, I have two comments: 1. Believe it or not, the MV2F turrets from Panasert make for great quick change machines. One reason is they have a "split" feeder carriage. You can produce on one and setup on the other. The other reason is they have an 8mm feeder that supports two part numbers per feeder slot. This means you can have 150 part #'s on one feeder carriage. 2. If your runs get into the 100's then the MV2F will support exchange mode. In exchange mode both feeder carriages are setup identically. When a part goes dry onone carriage the other scoots in and you only lose 4 seconds of production time. In this mode of operation, you basically don't lose any production capacity with parts outages. Take Care...

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