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SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Dave Batten

#14378

SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.?

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Dave F

#14380

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

| Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.? Dave: ANSI/IPC-R-700 answers many of your questions. Dave F

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Earl Moon

#14381

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

| | Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.? | Dave: ANSI/IPC-R-700 answers many of your questions. Dave F Dave, 700 no longer applies. IPC-7721 is now titled "Repair and Modification of Printed Boards and Electronic Assemblies." IPC-7711 is now "Rework of Electronic Assemblies." Earl Moon

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Dave F

#14382

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

| | | Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.? | | Dave: ANSI/IPC-R-700 answers many of your questions. Dave F | Dave, | 700 no longer applies. IPC-7721 is now titled "Repair and Modification of Printed Boards and Electronic Assemblies." IPC-7711 is now "Rework of Electronic Assemblies." | Earl Moon Earl: You're correct!! Dave F

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Earl Moon

#14383

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

| | | | Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.? | | | Dave: ANSI/IPC-R-700 answers many of your questions. Dave F | | Dave, | | 700 no longer applies. IPC-7721 is now titled "Repair and Modification of Printed Boards and Electronic Assemblies." IPC-7711 is now "Rework of Electronic Assemblies." | | Earl Moon | Earl: You're correct!! Dave F Dave, You're the best. Man, it takes the early bird or worm (don't remember how that goes) to get one up on you. How do you do it? Do I really want to know? I'll stop talking to myself and wonder how big Steve G is doing these days. Earl Moon

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Steve Gregory

#14384

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 10 September, 1998

| I'll stop talking to myself and wonder how big Steve G is doing these days. | Earl Moon Hey Earl! I was wondering the same thing about you a few weeks back when we didn't hear much from you...but, I'm doing okay. Been busier than a one-legged man inna butt kicking contest lately. You know I'm at a start-up, and we've been getting busy. Unfortunately, most of the stuff we're building is prototype...I guess the word has gotten out that we'll do prototypes for a song...gotta get some business somehow (I guess..). Here in silicon valley's "merger mania", there's not too many contract assembly companies a small company can go to get a few prototypes built without commiting the next 10-years production, or the presidents first born son to them if they want their proto's put together. So that's what I've been doing...working off of a bill of material that's been written on a cocktail napkin, dealing with passive parts that come to me in 100-piece strips, baggies (literally..) of IC's, QFP's sandwiched between two pieces of pink foam with a rubber band around them, you know...the FUN stuff! I'm getting pretty good at bending leads on IC's so they can fit the screwed up footprints that have been laid-out on the boards, and I've one rework operator that can make just about any through-hole part work on surface mount pads...you wonder sometimes how things can get so screwed-up designing a simple printed circuit assembly. When I sit back and look at everything, it boggles my mind how in the world companies can organize the efforts of hundreds and hundreds of people when it comes to building something like say an aircraft carrier, or a skyscraper, when you see all the mistakes that get made with a simple PCA with a hundred parts? Weird huh? Oh well, enough of that...as you can see, I'm alive and kickin'!! C-ya later alligator!! -Steve Gregory-

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Earl Moon

#14385

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 11 September, 1998

| | I'll stop talking to myself and wonder how big Steve G is doing these days. | | Earl Moon | Hey Earl! | I was wondering the same thing about you a few weeks back when we didn't hear much from you...but, I'm doing okay. Been busier than a one-legged man inna butt kicking contest lately. | You know I'm at a start-up, and we've been getting busy. Unfortunately, most of the stuff we're building is prototype...I guess the word has gotten out that we'll do prototypes for a song...gotta get some business somehow (I guess..). Here in silicon valley's "merger mania", there's not too many contract assembly companies a small company can go to get a few prototypes built without commiting the next 10-years production, or the presidents first born son to them if they want their proto's put together. | So that's what I've been doing...working off of a bill of material that's been written on a cocktail napkin, dealing with passive parts that come to me in 100-piece strips, baggies (literally..) of IC's, QFP's sandwiched between two pieces of pink foam with a rubber band around them, you know...the FUN stuff! I'm getting pretty good at bending leads on IC's so they can fit the screwed up footprints that have been laid-out on the boards, and I've one rework operator that can make just about any through-hole part work on surface mount pads...you wonder sometimes how things can get so screwed-up designing a simple printed circuit assembly. | When I sit back and look at everything, it boggles my mind how in the world companies can organize the efforts of hundreds and hundreds of people when it comes to building something like say an aircraft carrier, or a skyscraper, when you see all the mistakes that get made with a simple PCA with a hundred parts? Weird huh? | Oh well, enough of that...as you can see, I'm alive and kickin'!! | C-ya later alligator!! | -Steve Gregory- Steve, Glad to see all is going so well in Silicon Gulch. I will be consulting at a large company in your area in about 6 weeks designing their next generation of 22 layer, 14x18" multiprocessor file server boards. We'll need some proto help. Should we talk? If so, get me some info on your operation. Earl Moon

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Dave Batten

#14386

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 11 September, 1998

Thanks for the help, Guys. As a matter of interest, I'm going to look up the standard and see if there's a European (or preferably UK) equivalent. If I find anything, I'll post another Follow Up (though I doubt it holds much interest for you)! Regards, Dave

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Jeff sanchez

#14387

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 14 September, 1998

| Thanks for the help, Guys. | As a matter of interest, I'm going to look up the standard and see if there's a European (or preferably UK) equivalent. If I find anything, I'll post another Follow Up (though I doubt it holds much interest for you)! | Regards, | Dave To tell you the truth? I think we would all be interested. Europe gave us the ISO 9,000,000.00 standards, as in that's what it will cost just to get certified. The manual is 9000 or 9001 or 9002 depending on how much you want to spend? So if you should find a standards guide out of the UK that the industry will accept than I will be the first to respond. As long as it doesn't cost me my wife, daughter,or half my family jewels. On a more real note? All sarcasm aside, I think it would be good to see some other standards. But I think it best to fallow who is really breaking ground in our industry and who is keeping up with it as far as the standards are concerned. In other words, if you find a new standards guide will they cover our latest problems like Earl does? I know I just got threw slamming ISO cause it cost so much, but the truth is they cover allot of ground! IPC on the other hand is very appropriate for what we do and if something is missing than we have these resources.So if you find something out there make sure it is not out dated.Around here that's about a week!..........Jeff Sanchez

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Earl Moon

#14388

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 14 September, 1998

| | Thanks for the help, Guys. | | As a matter of interest, I'm going to look up the standard and see if there's a European (or preferably UK) equivalent. If I find anything, I'll post another Follow Up (though I doubt it holds much interest for you)! | | Regards, | | Dave | To tell you the truth? I think we would all be interested. Europe gave us the ISO 9,000,000.00 standards, as in that's what it will cost just to get certified. The manual is 9000 or 9001 or 9002 depending on how much you want to spend? So if you should find a standards guide out of the UK that the industry will accept than I will be the first to respond. As long as it doesn't cost me my wife, daughter,or half my family jewels. | On a more real note? All sarcasm aside, I think it would be good to see some other standards. But I think it best to fallow who is really breaking ground in our industry and who is keeping up with it as far as the standards are concerned. In other words, if you find a new standards guide will they cover our latest problems like Earl does? I know I just got threw slamming ISO cause it cost so much, but the truth is they cover allot of ground! IPC on the other hand is very appropriate for what we do and if something is missing than we have these resources.So if you find something out there make sure it is not out dated.Around here that's about a week!..........Jeff Sanchez | Jeff and all, Concerning ISO, it is pretty good. It, its powers admit, does not cover all the ground. It is left to those registered to begin CPI and TQM. As far as cost goes, I have no problem except in cases where auditors/registrars are bribed to provide continuous registration status. I know several companies that simply don't keep up or come close to deserving re-registration. They buy it. The big concern is people not practicing that for which they signed up. Also, with so much money being spent on registration, there is entirely too much cheating going on. The biggest problems associated with ISO are those concerning auditing only to the procedure level. There are no requirements for auditing work instructions (where the rubber meets the road and things get built) unless a company says something about work instructions in its Quality Policy Manual or Procedures. Again, as it is said so often, say what you do and do what you say. This is a big oversite, but is correctable by those takin ISO seriously through CPI and TQM even though some ISO "experts" say ISO is all you need. Earl Moon

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Jeff Sanchez

#14389

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 14 September, 1998

| | | Thanks for the help, Guys. | | | As a matter of interest, I'm going to look up the standard and see if there's a European (or preferably UK) equivalent. If I find anything, I'll post another Follow Up (though I doubt it holds much interest for you)! | | | Regards, | | | Dave | | To tell you the truth? I think we would all be interested. Europe gave us the ISO 9,000,000.00 standards, as in that's what it will cost just to get certified. The manual is 9000 or 9001 or 9002 depending on how much you want to spend? So if you should find a standards guide out of the UK that the industry will accept than I will be the first to respond. As long as it doesn't cost me my wife, daughter,or half my family jewels. | | On a more real note? All sarcasm aside, I think it would be good to see some other standards. But I think it best to fallow who is really breaking ground in our industry and who is keeping up with it as far as the standards are concerned. In other words, if you find a new standards guide will they cover our latest problems like Earl does? I know I just got threw slamming ISO cause it cost so much, but the truth is they cover allot of ground! IPC on the other hand is very appropriate for what we do and if something is missing than we have these resources.So if you find something out there make sure it is not out dated.Around here that's about a week!..........Jeff Sanchez | | | Jeff and all, | Concerning ISO, it is pretty good. It, its powers admit, does not cover all the ground. It is left to those registered to begin CPI and TQM. | As far as cost goes, I have no problem except in cases where auditors/registrars are bribed to provide continuous registration status. I know several companies that simply don't keep up or come close to deserving re-registration. They buy it. | The big concern is people not practicing that for which they signed up. Also, with so much money being spent on registration, there is entirely too much cheating going on. | The biggest problems associated with ISO are those concerning auditing only to the procedure level. There are no requirements for auditing work instructions (where the rubber meets the road and things get built) unless a company says something about work instructions in its Quality Policy Manual or Procedures. Again, as it is said so often, say what you do and do what you say. This is a big oversite, but is correctable by those takin ISO seriously through CPI and TQM even though some ISO "experts" say ISO is all you need. | Earl Moon Earl, Some how I just knew you would say it better! Thanks from Jeff

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Jeff Ferry

#14379

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 23 September, 1998

| Can anybody point me to a Standard that provides details on the use of Wire Links for the repair of SMT PCBs, e.g. the maximum number of permissible links, the material to be used, the method of joint etc.? At the next meeting of the IPC Repair committee this coming October, we will be reviewing several jumper wire procedures. Included with these procedures are 37 detailed illustrations covering preferred, acceptable and not recommended wire terminations methods. For more information you can preview these procedures off our website at www.circuitnet.com. Check the section called guidebook. Jeff Ferry President - Circuit Technology Center Chairman - IPC Repair Committee

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Dave Batten

#14390

Re: SMT repairs using wire links | 5 October, 1998

| At the next meeting of the IPC Repair committee this coming October, we will be reviewing several jumper wire procedures. Included with these procedures are 37 detailed illustrations covering preferred, acceptable and not recommended wire terminations methods. For more information you can preview these procedures off our website at www.circuitnet.com. Check the section called guidebook. | Jeff Ferry | President - Circuit Technology Center | Chairman - IPC Repair Committee

Thanks for the advice, Jeff: I have looked at the site and pointed our Production Engineering department to it. Also, I would be interested to hear what conclusions you reach in your meeting. So far, my enquiries as to whether there is a European equivalent have drawn a blank - the BSI (British Standards Institute) had nothing in their standards, though they did offer to continue a search on my behalf for �100.00! I declined, on the basis that I doubt their search would have been any more fruitful than mine.

Regards,

Dave Batten Quality Assurance Engineer Racal Avionics Limited ENGLAND

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