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I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background)

Steve Gregory

#14095

I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 25 September, 1998

O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... My babuh done left me... my dawg pee'd on my leg... my cornflakes are all poopy... don't make me hafta beg... I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." OH! Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! -Steve Gregory-

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Dave F

#14102

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 25 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | OH! | | Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). | Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. | I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" | "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." | "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." | But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. | Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! | -Steve Gregory- Steve: There, there, pardner, I hope this helps. I can't remember what we paid, but it wasn't $3k, LT $1k for a Leister (800.700.6894) hot air hand tool. They have so many nozzles, it'll make your head hurt. Can be used for both SMT and PTH. It works great for dis-assembly and requires a bit of finese (tell me that using two soldering irons doesn't) for soldering. Check it out. Another LT $1k alternative is a "hot air, hot plate" made by Zephyrtronics, 207 NPalomares, Pomona CA 91767 909.865.2595fax4998. It is used to preheat large sections of the board which makes soldering with two irons easier. TTYL Dave F

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Mike C

#14101

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 25 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | OH! | | Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). | Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. | I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" | "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." | "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." | But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. | Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! | -Steve Gregory- Steve Catchy tune, but you don't have to sing it anymore (please). I bet ol boss man can understand $$$$$ If you consider the time spent soldering those buggers by hand compared to using an Airvac. Show em the ROI will pay for the Airvac in a couple of months he might come around. If that doesn't work, get on the paging system and sing away. But your to young to be singing the blues. Mike

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Jeff Sanchez

#14103

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 26 September, 1998

| | O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | | My babuh done left me... | | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | | my cornflakes are all poopy... | | don't make me hafta beg... | | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | | OH! | | | | Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). | | Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. | | I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" | | "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." | | "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." | | But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. | | Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! | | -Steve Gregory- | Steve: There, there, pardner, I hope this helps. | I can't remember what we paid, but it wasn't $3k, LT $1k for a Leister (800.700.6894) hot air hand tool. They have so many nozzles, it'll make your head hurt. Can be used for both SMT and PTH. It works great for dis-assembly and requires a bit of finese (tell me that using two soldering irons doesn't) for soldering. Check it out. | Another LT $1k alternative is a "hot air, hot plate" made by Zephyrtronics, 207 NPalomares, Pomona CA 91767 909.865.2595fax4998. It is used to preheat large sections of the board which makes soldering with two irons easier. | TTYL | Dave F Steve, I had a boss like that ounce! So I got a Cornning hot plate and the machinist made an aluminum jig for the board and it worked. If you don't preheat the board then how good can the solder joints be? How much of a mess are these girls making ? I can only imagine! Daves right! "hot air & hot plate" But the Air-Vac PCBRM's are nice and would save you $$ as well as be there for your next need. Which will happen right when the boss decides not buy! I hope that someone can technically back me on this? Two irons is a BAD process because it puts the board at risk of stressing it's laminate and the epoxy under the pads. Boards are pretty tuff but not under high isolated heat! I will assume the thought is if two irons are better, than more heat must be better? Wrong! Steady low heat is better. But that takes more pateince than these assemblers might have. Taking us to the time is $$ thing, and if he won't flip the three grand then at least convince him to get the hot air and a good plate, if that will work in your situation? Then you wont have to sing the blues, You'll just have to hum 'em. I suspect you will hear more issues on quality and that's the point you can sell your boss on. I don't see a two iron process in my standards book! GOOD LUCK, Jeff

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Lance Smalley

#14100

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 26 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | OH! | | Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). | Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. | I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" | "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." | "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." | But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. | Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! | -Steve Gregory- And think of all the money you'd save by not buying more shelving for storing product. Just hire more people to stand around holding boxes. If there's a way to semi automate a process that can affect quality (delaminating, repeatability, etc.) it's a no brainer for $3K. Which process would get (or keep) a contract if the customer took a tour? "and over here we call the process the "flying iron" stage of assembly".

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Wayne Bracy

#14099

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 26 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | OH! | Steve:: First thing I would do is put together a matrix to include cost of present operation, cost for production assistance equipment, ROI, repeatability of the present and desired process, quality, who will take ownership and responsibility, etc. Remember you have to sell yourself everyday regardless of the boss. Make sure you have all your ducks-in-line and then go for it. I would find it hard to go against a good employee that has his 5 P's in order (Prior Planning prevents poor performance) Just my thoughts, but what do I know! Wayne

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Phillip Hunter

#14098

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 26 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h-h-h-h lawdy..." | OH! | | Hi there! Scared me fer a second...heheh....caught me singin' to myself...(blush). | Well, since you're here, I gotta question. Some of you know that I was looking for a used AirVac or dynamic solder pot not too long ago. The biggest motivator behind that is because of a box build that we got coming in. It's a litlle networking type of box that has a narrow, but thick backplane in it, and has connectors going through both sides, eight on one side, and four on the other, and of course we're building the backplane too. The connectors are the solder type (not press fit darn it!)...so you can understand why I was looking for an AirVac. | I found one at a decent price, a PCBRM-12 for 3K with 13 nozzels! Not bad huh? But wouldn't you know it, the boss is balking at buying it. He says; "What's wrong with hand soldering the connectors in?" | "Well, it sometimes takes the girls holding two soldering on it to get solder to flow all the way thru the barrels." | "So? it's a little extra work, that's what they get paid to do." | But there's gotta be a better argument than the lame two soldering iron reasoning I used, ain't there? Like much better solder quality, or less intermetallics than what occurs from jamming two irons to the joints...I gotta come up with something to convince him. | Maybe I'll threaten to sing "Dem ol' backplane blues" all day long until we get a AirVac....yeah! that's the ticket!!! | -Steve Gregory- Steve, How is your company able to stay competative in back plane assembly by throwing and army of soldering irons on a problem? How will you be able to reduce process costs and pass on those savings? What is the cost of backplane scrap in your factory caused by uncontrolled two iron soldering? My factory does backplanes as well. Some of them are 3K for a bare fab! Consequently opeating at 2 GigaHertz the customer can not tollerate pad repairs (ouch)! One wrong move and its all over. Another, angle is the process time required per unit hand soldering vs. mass solder techniques. Just a thought.

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Chrys

#14097

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 28 September, 1998

| O-H-H-H-H-H-H-H Lawdy, lawdy... | My babuh done left me... | my dawg pee'd on my leg... | my cornflakes are all poopy... | don't make me hafta beg... | I got's dem backplane blues, o-h-h- OK, STOP RIGHT THERE. I'm sure there's something we can contribute to eliminate those blues. (As it is I'm gonna hear that catchy little tune in my head all day) In my experience, bosses understand dollars. Just dollars. Not reliability or quality or happy workers or any of that other intagible crap. Showing good payback periods makes getting new equipment easy. Bosses see those dollars, but rarely understand where the dollars came from. So the engineer doing the cost justification can make this system of dollars and (no) sense work for them with a minimum of massaging. Here's what I do to justify my toy shopping: How long does it take to do the flying iron trick to solder these pins? Multiply it by the labor, benefit, and o'head rate (gotta be nice to the accountants to get this info). Don't bother accounting for the learning curve and the fact that they'll be doing it in half the time 10 weeks from now (its an intangible). How many per month? do the math. What's the probability of trashing a board? What's the lost revenue (not internal cost) of this board you just trashed? How many do you do per month? do the math. What's the probability of lifting a pad and causing extraordinary repair? Mulitply by the labor, benefit, & o'head again. How many per month? (again, this month - not in 10 weeks) Do the math. Add 'em up. Wow - look at that huge monthly cost of the flying irons!!! Who would have imagined! Now, what does that Air-Vac cost? What a bargain - it pays for itself in five months! And then we save money for the rest of the life of the contract! Make sure you emphasize the SAVINGS IN THE FIRST YEAR after the initial payback. Here's where you tell the boss he's a genius for suggesting you dig in this deep. Being a meager techie, you'd never consider the vast financial ramifications. The final trick - put it on a nice spreadsheet with pretty format & colors. That gets the finance guys to sign off right away, too. They figure you must know what you're doing and don't want to ask any ignorant questions about their manufacturing operation. This little method requires a day or two of drudgery, but, it opens that checkbook right up. Never failed me. Even when my new toys weren't budgeted for. It's that - "Wow! I'm actually gonna save money" feeling that managers like so much! Go ahead - appeal to their egos in an unabashedly Dilbert fashion. Works every time.

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Jim Zanolli

#14096

Re: I got dem ol' backplane blues...(harmonica wailing in the background) | 29 September, 1998

Teka Interconnection Systems may have a connector with their Solder Flux Bearing Lead technology -- by an economical pre-deposit of solder and flux on each connector lead, the connectors can be reflowed in convection with other SMD's without adding solder, solder paste, or flux.

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Plasma Prior to Conformal Coating

Heller Industries Mark 5获得了 2015年中国SMT远见奖 - 回焊炉领域