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Scott Davies

#12318

Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all!

We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives.

Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons.

Many Thanks Scott Davies

reply »

Bill Schreiber

#12319

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

Dear Scott, You are correct in questioning the chemistry portion of the process. However, I am couriuous as to why you selected DEK as a stencil cleaner. The most important part of any cleaning process is always the chemistry. How you deliver the chemistry to the contaminated part (in this case a stencil) depends on geometry of the part (fine-pitch apertures), sensitivity of the part (delecate land mass areas between apertures), production rate, and cost etc.

It has been demonstrated and well accepted that "spray" systems cannot penetrate fine-pitch apertures and therefore cannot deliver the chemistry inside the apertures to accomplish 100% cleaning. Blocked apertures will lead to insufficients and other misprint problems.

High pressure sprays will also bend delicate land mass areas and alter the coplanarity and gasketing feature of the stencil.

An article, by Dick Clouthier of AMTX Stencils, was published in the July 1996 issue of EP&P magazine and also in the August 1996 issue of Asian Electronics Engineer magazine. This article discusses the pros and cons of different stencil cleaning processes. We have a copy of this article on our Web Site: www.smartsonic.com click on the "Recommended Reading" button.

Finally, I cannot understand why anyone would risk violating EPA Regulations when there is a stencil cleaning process available that is Certified Safe and Effective by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This certified process is also guaranteed to clean any type of solder paste from any fine-pitch stencil. A "no-risk" process!

The chemistry you are investigating is a solvent. All solvents have an environmental and user safety impact (VOSs, long term liability for disposal, flammability, noxious oders, etc.) The environmental regulations are becoming more strict every day.

If you purchase a stencil cleaning machine from one vendor and a chemistry from another vendor, nobody owns the process and therefore, nobody can guarantee its performance and/or environmental compatibility. If it fails to clean, you are on your own because the machime vendor will blame the chemistry and visa versa.

You should be looking for a complete and proven process provided by one vendor with a guaranteed performance rather than trying to reinvent the wheel an taking responsibility for process performance on your own.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, Bill Schreiber Tel: 1(805) 499-7440 Fax: 1(805) 375-5781

| SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | Many Thanks | Scott Davies |

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Bill schreiber

#12320

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

In a nutshell, you should be looking for a chemistry first, then look for a machine. Hopefully, they will be from the same source.

| Dear Scott, | You are correct in questioning the chemistry portion of the process. However, I am couriuous as to why you selected DEK as a stencil cleaner. The most important part of any cleaning process is always the chemistry. How you deliver the chemistry to the contaminated part (in this case a stencil) depends on geometry of the part (fine-pitch apertures), sensitivity of the part (delecate land mass areas between apertures), production rate, and cost etc. | | It has been demonstrated and well accepted that "spray" systems cannot penetrate fine-pitch apertures and therefore cannot deliver the chemistry inside the apertures to accomplish 100% cleaning. Blocked apertures will lead to insufficients and other misprint problems. | | High pressure sprays will also bend delicate land mass areas and alter the coplanarity and gasketing feature of the stencil. | | An article, by Dick Clouthier of AMTX Stencils, was published in the July 1996 issue of EP&P magazine and also in the August 1996 issue of Asian Electronics Engineer magazine. This article discusses the pros and cons of different stencil cleaning processes. We have a copy of this article on our Web Site: www.smartsonic.com click on the "Recommended Reading" button. | | Finally, I cannot understand why anyone would risk violating EPA Regulations when there is a stencil cleaning process available that is Certified Safe and Effective by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This certified process is also guaranteed to clean any type of solder paste from any fine-pitch stencil. A "no-risk" process! | | The chemistry you are investigating is a solvent. All solvents have an environmental and user safety impact (VOSs, long term liability for disposal, flammability, noxious oders, etc.) The environmental regulations are becoming more strict every day. | | If you purchase a stencil cleaning machine from one vendor and a chemistry from another vendor, nobody owns the process and therefore, nobody can guarantee its performance and/or environmental compatibility. If it fails to clean, you are on your own because the machime vendor will blame the chemistry and visa versa. | | You should be looking for a complete and proven process provided by one vendor with a guaranteed performance rather than trying to reinvent the wheel an taking responsibility for process performance on your own. | | Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. | Regards, | Bill Schreiber | Tel: 1(805) 499-7440 | Fax: 1(805) 375-5781 | | | SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | | | Many Thanks | | Scott Davies | | | |

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Steve Schrader

#12321

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

| SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | Many Thanks | Scott Davies |

Scott,

We are getting good results with the Zestron product (Vigon). We are very satisfied. Make sure you keep the temperature down (around 100F) or else you will lose a lot of material through steam.

Steve

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Mike Konrad

#12322

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

We are a manufacturer of Ultrasonic stencil cleaning systems. We do not promote our own chemistry, rather we recommend that the user choose a chemistry that best suits the application and environmental considerations.

We have extensively tested Zestron's Vigon products (SC and SC200) and found them to be excellent chemistries. Additionally, we have had considerable success with Kyzen products.

Another new product is available from Petrofirm (and Alpha Metals) called Vertex. Our early tests indicate very good results.

Be aware of companies attempting to persuade you into purchasing their chemicals and equipment based on so-called "EPA exclusive approvals". The true fact is that there are several "approved" chemistries available from a variety of chemical manufacturers.

Choose the chemistry based on price, performance, and environmental attributes. Choose a chemical company with an in-depth knowledge of the application. Companies like Zestron, Alpha Metals, Petrofirm, Kyzen and others are good starts.

Mike Konrad Aqueous Technologies (800) 218-8128

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Bill Schreiber

#12323

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

| | SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | | | Many Thanks | | Scott Davies | | | | Scott, | | We are getting good results with the Zestron product (Vigon). We are very satisfied. Make sure you keep the temperature down (around 100F) or else you will lose a lot of material through steam. | | Steve | Water vapor is a key comtamination source for an SMT assembly area. You don't want any water vapor around. You want an aqueous chemistry that cleans at room temp. as not to produce excess water vapor. Also, elevated temperatures can damage a stencil and is a waste of energy $$$.

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B. Walton

#12324

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

Spray cleaners are poor alternatives to todays ultrasonic stencil cleaners. Ultrasonics are the way to go and you can use rather benign water based chemistries to get the job done. As for screening adhesives and cleaning glue residue with spray wands, forget about it. (been there, tried that!) Plus there are No VOC's in detergents and the remaining spent or loaded chemistry can be harmlessly boiled away in an evaporator as steam. By the way, the ultrasonic cavitation is the real cleaner not the carefull choice of detergents. There are plenty of solder pastes that will clean in properly designed ultrasonics tanks and plain old deionized water. As for ultrasonic detergents... There are a lot to choose from. Most manufacturers of ultrasonic stencil cleaners endorse chemistries for cleaning paste. Some private label them and reap a windfall off of mark-up. One will void your warranty if you use anything other than their chemistry. Consider all of the costs. Ask all the questions and decide for your self.

I chose ultrasonic.

| In a nutshell, you should be looking for a chemistry first, then look for a machine. Hopefully, they will be from the same source. | | | Dear Scott, | | You are correct in questioning the chemistry portion of the process. However, I am couriuous as to why you selected DEK as a stencil cleaner. The most important part of any cleaning process is always the chemistry. How you deliver the chemistry to the contaminated part (in this case a stencil) depends on geometry of the part (fine-pitch apertures), sensitivity of the part (delecate land mass areas between apertures), production rate, and cost etc. | | | | It has been demonstrated and well accepted that "spray" systems cannot penetrate fine-pitch apertures and therefore cannot deliver the chemistry inside the apertures to accomplish 100% cleaning. Blocked apertures will lead to insufficients and other misprint problems. | | | | High pressure sprays will also bend delicate land mass areas and alter the coplanarity and gasketing feature of the stencil. | | | | An article, by Dick Clouthier of AMTX Stencils, was published in the July 1996 issue of EP&P magazine and also in the August 1996 issue of Asian Electronics Engineer magazine. This article discusses the pros and cons of different stencil cleaning processes. We have a copy of this article on our Web Site: www.smartsonic.com click on the "Recommended Reading" button. | | | | Finally, I cannot understand why anyone would risk violating EPA Regulations when there is a stencil cleaning process available that is Certified Safe and Effective by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This certified process is also guaranteed to clean any type of solder paste from any fine-pitch stencil. A "no-risk" process! | | | | The chemistry you are investigating is a solvent. All solvents have an environmental and user safety impact (VOSs, long term liability for disposal, flammability, noxious oders, etc.) The environmental regulations are becoming more strict every day. | | | | If you purchase a stencil cleaning machine from one vendor and a chemistry from another vendor, nobody owns the process and therefore, nobody can guarantee its performance and/or environmental compatibility. If it fails to clean, you are on your own because the machime vendor will blame the chemistry and visa versa. | | | | You should be looking for a complete and proven process provided by one vendor with a guaranteed performance rather than trying to reinvent the wheel an taking responsibility for process performance on your own. | | | | Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. | | Regards, | | Bill Schreiber | | Tel: 1(805) 499-7440 | | Fax: 1(805) 375-5781 | | | | | SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | | | | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | | | | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | | | | | Many Thanks | | | Scott Davies | | | | | | | | | |

reply »

Bill Schreiber

#12325

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 March, 1999

| We are a manufacturer of Ultrasonic stencil cleaning systems. We do not promote our own chemistry, rather we recommend that the user choose a chemistry that best suits the application and environmental considerations. | | We have extensively tested Zestron's Vigon products (SC and SC200) and found them to be excellent chemistries. Additionally, we have had considerable success with Kyzen products. | | Another new product is available from Petrofirm (and Alpha Metals) called Vertex. Our early tests indicate very good results. | | Be aware of companies attempting to persuade you into purchasing their chemicals and equipment based on so-called "EPA exclusive approvals". The true fact is that there are several "approved" chemistries available from a variety of chemical manufacturers. | | Choose the chemistry based on price, performance, and environmental attributes. Choose a chemical company with an in-depth knowledge of the application. Companies like Zestron, Alpha Metals, Petrofirm, Kyzen and others are good starts. | | Mike Konrad | Aqueous Technologies | (800) 218-8128 | I guess there is no limit as to how far some vendors will stoop and attempt to mislead.

There is only one cleaning process, of any kind, approved by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). That process is Smart Sonic's Stencil Cleaning Process. There are other chemistries that have certification as a "Clean Air Solvent" (CAS) by the So. Coast AQMD as does Smart Sonic's 440-R SMT Detergent. However, the CAS certification is for the chemistry only - it is not process specific. When you use a CAS certified chemistry for cleaning solder paste (lead), all bets are off! The CAS certification is very loose. It allows for up to 50 gm/l of VOCs.

If you visit Smart Sonic's Web Site (www.smartsonic.com) and click on the button for "Environmental Certifications" you will see the EPA and AQMD Certifications for the Smart Sonic process. Better yet, here's something no other chemistry mfgr. would dare to offer. Call the EPA directly and ask about the Smart Sonic Stencil Cleaning Process. Here are some numbers: Norma Lewis at U.S.EPA (513) 569-7665 Pat Bennett at Cal. EPA (916) 322-4233

While other chemistries and process are trying to stay one step ahead of the ever changing environmental regulations, Smart Sonic has set the standard for over 9 years.

Have Mr. Konrad provide the EPA certifications of the several chemistries he states are available. I think you will see where the "Kon" in Konrad comes from.

With Smart Sonic you are not locked into using any one chemistry. You just have the best possible chemistry available to you, 440-R SMT Detergent.

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Mike Konrad

#12326

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 13 March, 1999

Greetings Bill,

My� Aren't we just a little sensitive!

Isn't the purpose of this forum to educate, exchange ideas, provide alternative solutions??? Or is it an open-ended venue for the advertisement of one specific machine from one specific manufacturer.

If you would take the time to actually READ my message which responded to our opinions regarding Zestron's Vigon product, rather than initiating your trigger-happy advertising reflex perhaps you wouldn't be so annoying.

And by the way� your little personal attack ('KON' in Konrad) is cute. About as cute a the 'BS' in Bill Schreiber.

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NAK

#12327

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 18 March, 1999

Here Here.

And, avoid the BS

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Kevin Ham

#12328

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 October, 1999

Scott:

Call me I will send you a sample of our Cleaning Detergent.

Kevin Ham PMR Systems, Inc. 480-829-8170 ext. 11

| SMTNetters: excellent Forum, keep up the good work all! | | We are in the process of purchasing a Dek Stencil Cleaner and we have been recommended to use Vigon SC200 solvent to remove Heraeus no-clean solder paste from stencils and mis-printed PCBs. We may also, in the future, be using screen printed SMD adhesives. | | Do any of you good people have any experience using Vigon (or any alternative products), can you enlighten me as to its pros and cons. | | Many Thanks | Scott Davies |

reply »

#12329

Re: Stencil Cleaning | 12 October, 1999

| Scott: | | Call me I will send you a sample of our Cleaning Detergent. | | Kevin Ham | PMR Systems, Inc. | 480-829-8170 ext. 11 | | Kevin: We appreciate that you would like us to be aware of product. The Technical Forum is not the proper vehicle for that. Remember when you posted that it said "no advertising please?"

The proper approach for you to make us aware of your product is to contact the folks at SMTnet and purchase a banner like your colleagues did. You know those boxes that are busily flashing on the top and left hand side of the screen.

Thanks for supporting SMTnet

Dave F

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