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Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...)

Greg

#11178

Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 3 June, 1999

Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment?

These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!"

At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong.

..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure...

..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :)

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Earl Moon

#11179

Re: Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 4 June, 1999

| Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment? | | These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!" | | At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong. | | ..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure... | | ..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :) | Sure it's fun. I held off reading your posting until now only because I'm leaving a contract because of the same crap.

We have the best engineering, production, and support people in the business. I'm sure you'll say the same. We have the two worst "management" people to make a good situation nearly impossible.

Where do these folks come from. On is a Stanford grad, in what I don't know, but professes to be some type engineer. Hell, this guy still wears his big "S" sweats and sockless shoes at my age. Jesus, his cohort, is so in tune with this guy, without benefit of education, but has learned only one thing - react.

These two guys, in a company built on proactive management philosophy, are destroying the very fabric of the organization. To ge things done, they yell or shout orders to anyone in their path.

We had the best DEK maintenance tech in last week, and the "BIG" boss grabbed him, pulled him aside, and told him to fix the damn machine or we'll buy the competition's stuff. He didn't even know what MPM was or what it did. He simply did what he did best - be corruptive, arrogant (arrogance is acceptable when you're very good and cool), and totally out of line.

Anyway, this seems to be the "new/old" management style reborn out of pre-historic mentality. What happened to preventing defect instead of constantly reacting to it and calling you destructive when trying to do the right thing.

Talk about venting! Wow, boogie, etc.

Moonman

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JohnW

#11180

Re: Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 4 June, 1999

| | Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment? | | | | These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!" | | | | At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong. | | | | ..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure... | | | | ..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :) | | | Sure it's fun. I held off reading your posting until now only because I'm leaving a contract because of the same crap. | | We have the best engineering, production, and support people in the business. I'm sure you'll say the same. We have the two worst "management" people to make a good situation nearly impossible. | | Where do these folks come from. On is a Stanford grad, in what I don't know, but professes to be some type engineer. Hell, this guy still wears his big "S" sweats and sockless shoes at my age. Jesus, his cohort, is so in tune with this guy, without benefit of education, but has learned only one thing - react. | | These two guys, in a company built on proactive management philosophy, are destroying the very fabric of the organization. To ge things done, they yell or shout orders to anyone in their path. | | We had the best DEK maintenance tech in last week, and the "BIG" boss grabbed him, pulled him aside, and told him to fix the damn machine or we'll buy the competition's stuff. He didn't even know what MPM was or what it did. He simply did what he did best - be corruptive, arrogant (arrogance is acceptable when you're very good and cool), and totally out of line. | | Anyway, this seems to be the "new/old" management style reborn out of pre-historic mentality. What happened to preventing defect instead of constantly reacting to it and calling you destructive when trying to do the right thing. | | Talk about venting! Wow, boogie, etc. | | Moonman | Wow guy's, it's alway's nice to hear that we are all in the same boat. Greg,you talk about the Dilbert's effect in real life here's some of the little beuties that I've had. Before you go on let me point out that I'm in the UK, not the US The latest is the installation of cubical's. Now I know this is a common practice in the US but we had a great open plan office that looked the part and you could have the odd technical chat or conversation with folk's. Well they've decided to put up these cubicals because...1. well tney have them in head office in the US and 2..(my personal favorite) people will have to make a real effort to talk to each other!!! I'm sorry I thought communication was what we actually wanted...ummm must just be me. Other little ditties... "Dont tell me the fact's just get it sorted!" or and this is a real conversation.. Manager.."this machine aint working get it sorted!" Engineer.."err we have no material to put on the board" Manager.."so what are YOU doing about it..??" Engineer.."was just nipping down to the corner store to buy some" Manager.."well dont forget to clock out!"

I guess the point is these folk's are everywhere..as Dilbert say's the induhvidual's think they's in control..but come the revolution.......

be strong, wether the storm, but most of all..be glad your not one of them!

JohnW

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Dean

#11181

Re: Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 5 June, 1999

| Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment? | | These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!" | | At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong. | | ..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure... | | ..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :) | Ignorance often will take the path of anger. It (anger) will gain short term results but will undermine long term trust and team building. Anger can be trigered by an expected result. Therefore, always over-estimate a job. Then come in under budget, completed job early and look like a hero! My Pet peves of production managers: * Remote management * Poor performance reviews due to lack of management comprehension of technical matters. * Using fear and intimidation to motivate. * Brow-beating "those damn operators are baboons!" * Asigning blame.

Your manager sounds familiar. I may have worked for him / her before! Hmm...overbearing, loud, nasty, blamefull. Yup! Hang in there. Our time for world domination is comming! Dean "whipping boy", Process Technician.

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Scott Cook

#11182

Re: Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 5 June, 1999

| Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment? | | These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!" | | At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong. | | ..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure... | | ..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :) |

Unfortunately, you can not plan on seeing these types exit manufacturing in the near future. One thing I learned in my 27 years of support on the floor is saintly patience. Patience for the right time to pitch capital equipment, patience for the money to come through, patience in developing solid processes with piss-poor tools and equipment, and patience in dealing with director level and manager level folks who really didn't even WANT to know any of the technical issues / obstacles. Some of the worst types over the years were......CAD designers / managers.

My advice to you is to focus on your piece of the puzzle. When you have good processees and equipment which runs, it soon becomes obvious to those above Which organization has problems within the facility....

Oh, and by the way......for the last 6 years of my career on the floor, I did make more annually than the production and quality managers.....so patience is a virtue there, as well.

Forge on, collect data to back up your desire to buy "that thing" which makes your life easier. When you can prove to the big boys in black and white that if they spend "X", they will gain 3"X", it's a no-brainer. Half your job today in engineering is sales......

Scott Cook (now SE Regional Sales Manager for UniCam Software.....from 27 years of engineering to SALES.....not a hard transition).

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Earl Moon

#11183

Re: Dilbert-Like Episodes in Manufacturing... (i need to vent...) | 5 June, 1999

| | Any of you Process/Manufacturing Engineers, techs, etc..or those of you who 'have a clue' about this stuff been victimized by (clueless and uneducated) Manufacturing Supervisors and (clueless and uneducated) Managers who blame EVERYTHING on YOU, the processes and the equipment? | | | | These same managers and supervisors know absolutely NOTHING on the technical aspects of electronic mfgr. what's involved and how or why things get screwed up ...they expect bullet and idiot proof processes. "oh, it's NEVER the operators'faults so let's blame the proces, the engineer, or technician!"...that's their philosophy. "nothing is ever supposed to go wrong in the factory!" | | | | At the same time, they don't look at the "real" problems on the floor...training issues, PM issues, orginizational issues, logistics, business strategies, etc...these are things that a "good" manager would be looking at...their knowledge of both engineering and management is so non-existent, that all they look for is who (what engineer and what process) to blame when something goes wrong. | | | | ..and the sad thing is, these same so-called managers have almost zero understanding of processes and equipment, are less educated than you, contribute nothing, but yet, get twice your salary..hmmm...go figure... | | | | ..but hey, it's still a fun job.. :) | | | | Unfortunately, you can not plan on seeing these types exit manufacturing in the near future. One thing I learned in my 27 years of support on the floor is saintly patience. Patience for the right time to pitch capital equipment, patience for the money to come through, patience in developing solid processes with piss-poor tools and equipment, and patience in dealing with director level and manager level folks who really didn't even WANT to know any of the technical issues / obstacles. Some of the worst types over the years were......CAD designers / managers. | | My advice to you is to focus on your piece of the puzzle. When you have good processees and equipment which runs, it soon becomes obvious to those above Which organization has problems within the facility.... | | Oh, and by the way......for the last 6 years of my career on the floor, I did make more annually than the production and quality managers.....so patience is a virtue there, as well. | | Forge on, collect data to back up your desire to buy "that thing" which makes your life easier. When you can prove to the big boys in black and white that if they spend "X", they will gain 3"X", it's a no-brainer. Half your job today in engineering is sales...... | | Scott Cook (now SE Regional Sales Manager for UniCam Software.....from 27 years of engineering to SALES.....not a hard transition). | | Scott,

You always say the right thing. You said it especially concerning spending X to get 3 X. My point exactly is if management really understood less visible, but no less valuable, people skills, they would see 4 or 5 X returns on investment.

I'm talking about taking care of people first by paying them well and providing positive performance feedback, when deserved, so everyone becomes more responsible, responsive, and motivated to do it right the first time.

It's easy to see ROI with equipment because hard numbers and surfaces often are available. It should be as easy with softer fleshy textures.

Earl Moon

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