Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Micro-BGA soldering

#10417

Micro-BGA soldering | 26 July, 1999

Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 12BGA per assembly

The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film Pads .014inch Vias within footprint .020inch Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems.

A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003"

Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps).

Does anyone have comments or other suggestion.

reply »

Earl Moon

#10418

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 26 July, 1999

| Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | 12BGA per assembly | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | Pads .014inch | Vias within footprint .020inch | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask?

Earl Moon

reply »

ScottM

#10419

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 26 July, 1999

| Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | 12BGA per assembly | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | Pads .014inch | Vias within footprint .020inch | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | I have all my vias tented within a BGA pattern. If I get boards in without tents then I send them out and get them tented, at the customer's cost. If you don't -- short city.

Scott

reply »

#10420

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 27 July, 1999

| | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | Pads .014inch | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | Earl Moon | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings.

The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$.

reply »

Earl Moon

#10421

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 27 July, 1999

| | | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | | Pads .014inch | | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | | | Earl Moon | | | | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings. | | The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$.

Oh hell! I just gotta act sensitive in case my future x-wife is looking in. Anyway, you're asked to use hopeless DF soldermask that should have been swept under the continental divide 15 years ago and you have vias connected to uBGA pads as "dogbones" so what's the clearance Clarence - nada, right?.

As the man said, you have to do something, so tent away. I, of course, would allow only innerlayer connections with pad only outer layers. I, of course, like to spend money preventing solder defects with any assembly, let alone uBGA's. I just like to spend money, but not as much as my future you know who.

In case I'm still missing something, call Sally at 505-992-6507. Say nice things about me as she's rich and I might outlive the broad. How's that for sensitive.

Moonman

reply »

M.L

#10422

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 27 July, 1999

| | | | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | | | Pads .014inch | | | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | | | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | | | | | Earl Moon | | | | | | | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings. | | | | The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$. | | Oh hell! I just gotta act sensitive in case my future x-wife is looking in. Anyway, you're asked to use hopeless DF soldermask that should have been swept under the continental divide 15 years ago and you have vias connected to uBGA pads as "dogbones" so what's the clearance Clarence - nada, right?. | | As the man said, you have to do something, so tent away. I, of course, would allow only innerlayer connections with pad only outer layers. I, of course, like to spend money preventing solder defects with any assembly, let alone uBGA's. I just like to spend money, but not as much as my future you know who. | | In case I'm still missing something, call Sally at 505-992-6507. Say nice things about me as she's rich and I might outlive the broad. How's that for sensitive. | | Moonman

I already have enough of my little latina all I need is to call another woman and Bang ! there goes my Cohones!!! Back into this.... What do you suggest for solder mask?

I am intrigue about this phone number after all who is going to know? I'm not in US, is 505 ones of these phones lines we ask our kids not to try?

Thanks for your inputs.

reply »

Earl Moon

#10423

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 27 July, 1999

| | | | | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | | | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | | | | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | | | | Pads .014inch | | | | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | | | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | | | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | | | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | | | | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | | | | | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | | | | | | | Earl Moon | | | | | | | | | | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings. | | | | | | The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$. | | | | Oh hell! I just gotta act sensitive in case my future x-wife is looking in. Anyway, you're asked to use hopeless DF soldermask that should have been swept under the continental divide 15 years ago and you have vias connected to uBGA pads as "dogbones" so what's the clearance Clarence - nada, right?. | | | | As the man said, you have to do something, so tent away. I, of course, would allow only innerlayer connections with pad only outer layers. I, of course, like to spend money preventing solder defects with any assembly, let alone uBGA's. I just like to spend money, but not as much as my future you know who. | | | | In case I'm still missing something, call Sally at 505-992-6507. Say nice things about me as she's rich and I might outlive the broad. How's that for sensitive. | | | | Moonman | | I already have enough of my little latina all I need is to call another woman and Bang ! there goes my Cohones!!! | Back into this.... | What do you suggest for solder mask? | | I am intrigue about this phone number after all who is going to know? I'm not in US, is 505 ones of these phones lines we ask our kids not to try? | | Thanks for your inputs. | Let's start with what's important. First you latino lovers scare us anglo's. Ain't telling you more about my/your future ex woman. Fin out for yourself.

For technology, and who cares but to support our women in an appropriate style to look good and please (Nancy, don't leave me now), LPI is the only way to go.

That DF stuff does not adhere because it is not epoxy compatible. It does not cure as does epoxy types and does not cross link with like substrates. Every major supplier has some type liquid photoimageable solder mask beating, for many years, anything DF could do.

Respects, but not too much in front of my lady - maybe yours next week,

Mr. Sensitive (Moonman)

reply »

Justin Medernach

#10424

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 29 July, 1999

| | | | | | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | | | | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | | | | | | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | | | | | Pads .014inch | | | | | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | | | | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | | | | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | | | | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | | | | | | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | | | | | | | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | | | | | | | | | Earl Moon | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings. | | | | | | | | The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$. | | | | | | Oh hell! I just gotta act sensitive in case my future x-wife is looking in. Anyway, you're asked to use hopeless DF soldermask that should have been swept under the continental divide 15 years ago and you have vias connected to uBGA pads as "dogbones" so what's the clearance Clarence - nada, right?. | | | | | | As the man said, you have to do something, so tent away. I, of course, would allow only innerlayer connections with pad only outer layers. I, of course, like to spend money preventing solder defects with any assembly, let alone uBGA's. I just like to spend money, but not as much as my future you know who. | | | | | | In case I'm still missing something, call Sally at 505-992-6507. Say nice things about me as she's rich and I might outlive the broad. How's that for sensitive. | | | | | | Moonman | | | | I already have enough of my little latina all I need is to call another woman and Bang ! there goes my Cohones!!! | | Back into this.... | | What do you suggest for solder mask? | | | | I am intrigue about this phone number after all who is going to know? I'm not in US, is 505 ones of these phones lines we ask our kids not to try? | | | | Thanks for your inputs. | | | Let's start with what's important. First you latino lovers scare us anglo's. Ain't telling you more about my/your future ex woman. Fin out for yourself. | | For technology, and who cares but to support our women in an appropriate style to look good and please (Nancy, don't leave me now), LPI is the only way to go. | | That DF stuff does not adhere because it is not epoxy compatible. It does not cure as does epoxy types and does not cross link with like substrates. Every major supplier has some type liquid photoimageable solder mask beating, for many years, anything DF could do. | | Respects, but not too much in front of my lady - maybe yours next week, | | Mr. Sensitive (Moonman) | Moon, you're a dog. To the issues at hand. I had the exact configuration, relating to spacing but I had LPI mask, and had good success. I overprinted to .015" and got great yields, 80/ 80. Tent if you want to give yourself the warm fuzzy's but watch your placement force if you decide not to.

Regards, Justin

reply »

Earl Moon

#10425

Re: Micro-BGA soldering | 29 July, 1999

| | | | | | | Presently protos of micro-bgas (80i/o) pitch .030/.031 | | | | | | | 12BGA per assembly | | | | | | | | | | | | | | The board is a (.062, 4 layers) FR-4 using Dry film | | | | | | | Pads .014inch | | | | | | | Vias within footprint .020inch | | | | | | | Vias to be filled by bottom side(solder side) only .030in dia. Force via plugging is suggested by the board maker but does not seem adequate to us for microbga. | | | | | | | Distance from finish via to pad surface 4-5mil. | | | | | | | If it is not well plugged we anticipate problems. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | A friend suggested to mask over the vias Pad dia + .003" | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone see a problem with this sugesstion. Bottom via plugging is usualy the step taken in order to preserve a top flat surface (vias are about 80%of the thk plug, leaving the component side without bumps). | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Does anyone have comments or other suggestion. | | | | | | | | | | | | | I need help understanding the question. I need help, if I do understand the question, understanding why vias are anywhere near pads (without proper design rules negating the need for plugging or masking) with any SMT device, let alone BGA or uBGA. I'm not criticizing. I'm just not getting it. Also, without criticizing, why use DF solder mask? | | | | | | | | | | | | Earl Moon | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Criticizing if a first step towards a solution in many cases, so do not worry about my feelings. | | | | | | | | | | The customer prefers DF over photoimageable. As per the design their present board has scattered within the microBGA pattern, vias of .020in (finish) those were drilled from a .014in bit. Vias has very little annual ring. We belive they could go down in size in order to increase the gap between via outer dia and BGA pads. But of course, first question was how much $$$. | | | | | | | | Oh hell! I just gotta act sensitive in case my future x-wife is looking in. Anyway, you're asked to use hopeless DF soldermask that should have been swept under the continental divide 15 years ago and you have vias connected to uBGA pads as "dogbones" so what's the clearance Clarence - nada, right?. | | | | | | | | As the man said, you have to do something, so tent away. I, of course, would allow only innerlayer connections with pad only outer layers. I, of course, like to spend money preventing solder defects with any assembly, let alone uBGA's. I just like to spend money, but not as much as my future you know who. | | | | | | | | In case I'm still missing something, call Sally at 505-992-6507. Say nice things about me as she's rich and I might outlive the broad. How's that for sensitive. | | | | | | | | Moonman | | | | | | I already have enough of my little latina all I need is to call another woman and Bang ! there goes my Cohones!!! | | | Back into this.... | | | What do you suggest for solder mask? | | | | | | I am intrigue about this phone number after all who is going to know? I'm not in US, is 505 ones of these phones lines we ask our kids not to try? | | | | | | Thanks for your inputs. | | | | | Let's start with what's important. First you latino lovers scare us anglo's. Ain't telling you more about my/your future ex woman. Fin out for yourself. | | | | For technology, and who cares but to support our women in an appropriate style to look good and please (Nancy, don't leave me now), LPI is the only way to go. | | | | That DF stuff does not adhere because it is not epoxy compatible. It does not cure as does epoxy types and does not cross link with like substrates. Every major supplier has some type liquid photoimageable solder mask beating, for many years, anything DF could do. | | | | Respects, but not too much in front of my lady - maybe yours next week, | | | | Mr. Sensitive (Moonman) | | | Moon, you're a dog. To the issues at hand. I had the exact configuration, relating to spacing but I had LPI mask, and had good success. I overprinted to .015" and got great yields, 80/ 80. Tent if you want to give yourself the warm fuzzy's but watch your placement force if you decide not to. | | Regards, | Justin

Medarnach,

You're right. Since you've been absent, and we won't ask where you went, things have gone to the dogs. Dave, Scott, and Mike try to hold things together, but you see the results. We need some stability in our lives. Can you help?

Moonman

reply »

PCB Soldering Tools

PCB X-Ray Inspection