Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


JohnG

#9776

Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 5 September, 1999

We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help.

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#9777

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 6 September, 1999

| We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | | John,

first of all, which Fuji machines are you using. CP-3s, CP-4s, CP-6s, IP-Xs? They all have different feeders, and it makes a big difference. Are you sure the problem is with the feeders? Maybe it's with the machine's table? For example, with CP-4s the biggest trouble is with bent/misaligned feeder supports on the table. These require regular checks/adjustment with a very simple tool, and mostly it's these supports that are the problem but operators always have a tendency to put it on the feeder - it's so much easier to just swap feeders, than to stop the machine and do the required troubleshooting. And when it's clear that the problem isn't the feeder or the reel, it's the problem of the next shift anyway, but at that time you already have xx feeders in Maintenance that are supposedly "bent/loose/misaligned". And nobody remembers what really happened, so nobody challenges the statement that's the feeders that are bad. So far for the CP-4s, you may want to think it over if the above applies to your case.... Regarding CP-3s, it has been so long since we sold the last one, but I think I remember the supports are exactly the same as CP-4s'. Regarding CP-6s and IP-2s, the way they are locked into position is similar. And it's hard for me to believe they can be off position by more than a few 0.001"s at the most. Unless you run them over with a truck. They have been designed to prevent this problem, the locking mechanism is very solid and should easily withstand heavy workload for many, many, many years. Anyway, Fuji sells an adjustment jig for CP-6 feeders. We don't have one; we would like to, but it's quite expensive (I think 5-6K$, need to check). And it's mainly designed to adjust the pickup position in "Y" ,rather than in "D" direction. I think it was presented in one of the most recent "Fuji Newsletter", which you can access from the Web if they grant you a password. Last hint of today: you should not be so much in trouble if a feeder is only "bent" and not "loose". You only need to successfully complete a few pick-ups from a feeder location, then the machine adjusts itself to the "new" pickup position for that feeder. At each product setup change, just continue to clear the "pickup error" stops without removing the feeder. After a few panels, usually the problem disappears as if gremlins had come to fixe it.

Good luck, SB

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KEVIN SIMPSON

#9778

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 6 September, 1999

| | We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | | | | | John, | | first of all, which Fuji machines are you using. CP-3s, CP-4s, CP-6s, IP-Xs? They all have different feeders, and it makes a big difference. | Are you sure the problem is with the feeders? Maybe it's with the machine's table? For example, with CP-4s the biggest trouble is with bent/misaligned feeder supports on the table. These require regular checks/adjustment with a very simple tool, and mostly it's these supports that are the problem but operators always have a tendency to put it on the feeder - it's so much easier to just swap feeders, than to stop the machine and do the required troubleshooting. And when it's clear that the problem isn't the feeder or the reel, it's the problem of the next shift anyway, but at that time you already have xx feeders in Maintenance that are supposedly "bent/loose/misaligned". And nobody remembers what really happened, so nobody challenges the statement that's the feeders that are bad. So far for the CP-4s, you may want to think it over if the above applies to your case.... | Regarding CP-3s, it has been so long since we sold the last one, but I think I remember the supports are exactly the same as CP-4s'. | Regarding CP-6s and IP-2s, the way they are locked into position is similar. And it's hard for me to believe they can be off position by more than a few 0.001"s at the most. Unless you run them over with a truck. They have been designed to prevent this problem, the locking mechanism is very solid and should easily withstand heavy workload for many, many, many years. Anyway, Fuji sells an adjustment jig for CP-6 feeders. We don't have one; we would like to, but it's quite expensive (I think 5-6K$, need to check). And it's mainly designed to adjust the pickup position in "Y" ,rather than in "D" direction. I think it was presented in one of the most recent "Fuji Newsletter", which you can access from the Web if they grant you a password. | Last hint of today: you should not be so much in trouble if a feeder is only "bent" and not "loose". You only need to successfully complete a few pick-ups from a feeder location, then the machine adjusts itself to the "new" pickup position for that feeder. At each product setup change, just continue to clear the "pickup error" stops without removing the feeder. After a few panels, usually the problem disappears as if gremlins had come to fixe it. | | Good luck, | SB | I agree SB..Fuji feeders rarely get off that much.Are you using the Auto-Offset function in your Part data?This will usually keep your pick on Cp's humming!

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#9779

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 7 September, 1999

| | | I agree SB..Fuji feeders rarely get off that much.Are you using | the Auto-Offset function in your Part data?This will | usually keep your pick on Cp's humming! |

YES, always use the auto-offset function in each part data (do you also need to set a proper value? I don't remember ...). If you have bent feeder support pins on CP3-CP4, you still get consistent pick-up (unless they are bent REALLY too much ...). Remember that when you do maintenance and straighten all those 140 sets of pins/supports (as it should be done weekly), with the first boards it will seem like you have made it worse.

SB

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johng

#9780

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 7 September, 1999

| | We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | | | | | John, | | first of all, which Fuji machines are you using. CP-3s, CP-4s, CP-6s, IP-Xs? They all have different feeders, and it makes a big difference. | Are you sure the problem is with the feeders? Maybe it's with the machine's table? For example, with CP-4s the biggest trouble is with bent/misaligned feeder supports on the table. These require regular checks/adjustment with a very simple tool, and mostly it's these supports that are the problem but operators always have a tendency to put it on the feeder - it's so much easier to just swap feeders, than to stop the machine and do the required troubleshooting. And when it's clear that the problem isn't the feeder or the reel, it's the problem of the next shift anyway, but at that time you already have xx feeders in Maintenance that are supposedly "bent/loose/misaligned". And nobody remembers what really happened, so nobody challenges the statement that's the feeders that are bad. So far for the CP-4s, you may want to think it over if the above applies to your case.... | Regarding CP-3s, it has been so long since we sold the last one, but I think I remember the supports are exactly the same as CP-4s'. | Regarding CP-6s and IP-2s, the way they are locked into position is similar. And it's hard for me to believe they can be off position by more than a few 0.001"s at the most. Unless you run them over with a truck. They have been designed to prevent this problem, the locking mechanism is very solid and should easily withstand heavy workload for many, many, many years. Anyway, Fuji sells an adjustment jig for CP-6 feeders. We don't have one; we would like to, but it's quite expensive (I think 5-6K$, need to check). And it's mainly designed to adjust the pickup position in "Y" ,rather than in "D" direction. I think it was presented in one of the most recent "Fuji Newsletter", which you can access from the Web if they grant you a password. | Last hint of today: you should not be so much in trouble if a feeder is only "bent" and not "loose". You only need to successfully complete a few pick-ups from a feeder location, then the machine adjusts itself to the "new" pickup position for that feeder. At each product setup change, just continue to clear the "pickup error" stops without removing the feeder. After a few panels, usually the problem disappears as if gremlins had come to fixe it. | | Good luck, | SB |

We are using only cp6's and the problem we have is in the y direction. The maint. group was originally told by Fuji not to adjust the eccentric to adjust the pick-up spot but that is what we have to do. The problem is that we don't have a jig for them to verify position with.

I'll try to get a password from our Fuji rep to look at the newsletter. Thanks for the info.

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Md Cox

#9781

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 8 September, 1999

| | | We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | | | | | | | | John, | | | | first of all, which Fuji machines are you using. CP-3s, CP-4s, CP-6s, IP-Xs? They all have different feeders, and it makes a big difference. | | Are you sure the problem is with the feeders? Maybe it's with the machine's table? For example, with CP-4s the biggest trouble is with bent/misaligned feeder supports on the table. These require regular checks/adjustment with a very simple tool, and mostly it's these supports that are the problem but operators always have a tendency to put it on the feeder - it's so much easier to just swap feeders, than to stop the machine and do the required troubleshooting. And when it's clear that the problem isn't the feeder or the reel, it's the problem of the next shift anyway, but at that time you already have xx feeders in Maintenance that are supposedly "bent/loose/misaligned". And nobody remembers what really happened, so nobody challenges the statement that's the feeders that are bad. So far for the CP-4s, you may want to think it over if the above applies to your case.... | | Regarding CP-3s, it has been so long since we sold the last one, but I think I remember the supports are exactly the same as CP-4s'. | | Regarding CP-6s and IP-2s, the way they are locked into position is similar. And it's hard for me to believe they can be off position by more than a few 0.001"s at the most. Unless you run them over with a truck. They have been designed to prevent this problem, the locking mechanism is very solid and should easily withstand heavy workload for many, many, many years. Anyway, Fuji sells an adjustment jig for CP-6 feeders. We don't have one; we would like to, but it's quite expensive (I think 5-6K$, need to check). And it's mainly designed to adjust the pickup position in "Y" ,rather than in "D" direction. I think it was presented in one of the most recent "Fuji Newsletter", which you can access from the Web if they grant you a password. | | Last hint of today: you should not be so much in trouble if a feeder is only "bent" and not "loose". You only need to successfully complete a few pick-ups from a feeder location, then the machine adjusts itself to the "new" pickup position for that feeder. At each product setup change, just continue to clear the "pickup error" stops without removing the feeder. After a few panels, usually the problem disappears as if gremlins had come to fixe it. | | | | Good luck, | | SB | | | | | We are using only cp6's and the problem we have is in the y direction. The maint. group was originally told by Fuji not to adjust the eccentric to adjust the pick-up spot but that is what we have to do. The problem is that we don't have a jig for them to verify position with. | | I'll try to get a password from our Fuji rep to look at the newsletter. Thanks for the info. | If you haven�t already checked, look to make sure the operators are using the correct feeder for the Carrier. If you are trying to run Paper tape through an embossed feeder, you will have problems.

Mike C

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Steve E

#9782

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 8 September, 1999

| We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | |

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Steve E ( Fuji America )

#9783

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 8 September, 1999

| We are using some Fuji machines and have trouble picking parts up from damaged or mis-adjusted feeders. When I was working with Panasonic machines I was able to buy a feeder alignment jig from them to align the pick spot in the feeder, but Fuji doesn't sell such a tool. Has anybody come across a third party jig for Fuji feeders, or do you have other recommendations for aligning bad feeders? Thanks for your help. | |John, Fuji does sell a jig to align the feeders.To get info on the jig, contact your Fuji sales rep. There also is a trial jig to borrow to see if his will fill your needs. Contact Fuji America, training dept. Steve E

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JAX

#9784

Re: Fuji Feeder Alignment Tools | 9 September, 1999

| | | | | I agree SB..Fuji feeders rarely get off that much.Are you using | | the Auto-Offset function in your Part data?This will | | usually keep your pick on Cp's humming! | | | | YES, always use the auto-offset function in each part data (do you also need to set a proper value? I don't remember ...). If you have bent feeder support pins on CP3-CP4, you still get consistent pick-up (unless they are bent REALLY too much ...). | Remember that when you do maintenance and straighten all those 140 sets of pins/supports (as it should be done weekly), with the first boards it will seem like you have made it worse. | | SB | JohnG, You need to listen to the Fuji rep on this one. If your problem is in the Y-axis and your maintanance crew hasn't been able to fix it all the offset in the world isn't going to do any good. If your are going to have to wait on the Jig from fuji and have boards that must be built you need to find a way to adjust the Y-axis. Although it will not move it by much you might want to try leaning the feeder forward or backward in the assigned slot. This is not a good way to fix your problem but it might just be enough to get you through.

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