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Quad IVc AutoProgram

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Anyone know how to use AutoProgram 5.32 for the Quad IVc ass... - Apr 01, 2013 by m-aide  

#68593

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 1 April, 2013

Anyone know how to use AutoProgram 5.32 for the Quad IVc assemblers? I am having all kinds of problems. I can't create a new SMD Type because the Edit menu is greyed out, so I can't select New. I can't figure out how to set up feeders and assign feeders to parts. My documentation is for version 5.2, and many of the screens for version 5.32 are VERY different. My company just purchased this equipment and software used from another company that went out of business, so I have no one to help me figure it out.

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MM

#68594

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 1 April, 2013

Sounds like you need to be at a different level of operator. They may have had operators locked out. You will need to know the password or if you know dos well, you can find it out there. You can also call PPM for assistance. Just search PPM and you can get the number easily.

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#68595

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 1 April, 2013

AutoProgram has no password. I did a fresh install of AutoProgram from the original factory floppy disks. There are no passwords, nor any way of assigning passwords. Have you ever used AutoProgram?

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RLM

#68596

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 1 April, 2013

In order to create a new part you must first select one of the parts that is installed with autoprogram. The edit button will become active so that you can create a part.

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#68597

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 1 April, 2013

Yes! Thank you. That was not intuitively obvious, nor did the manual make that point clear at all. I can now create new SMD Types.

Now if I just had the foggiest idea on how to set up and assign feeders, I might be able to generate my program. Right now when I "Generate Program" I get a "feeder not found" error on every single component. I need to set up tape feeders, vibratory (i.e. tube) feeders, and a waffle tray feeder. I've been through the manual many times, and I just don't understand how this is done. Can someone give me a clue?

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RLM

#68602

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 2 April, 2013

Have you entered your machine configuration into Autoprogrem yet? This must be completed before you can generate a program.

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#68605

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 2 April, 2013

I have entered my machine configuration as much as I can figure it out. I will have two machines. One with tape feeders, and the other with vibratory (tube) feeders and a waffle feeder. I've tried to set this up as best I can. But I get to the screen for "Define Tape Base On The Front Side of Head 1" (click on Assembler/System, then click on Tape and Latched Vibratory Feeder Base), and it is Greek to me. The manual says "Enter the information as indicated on the screen and click on OK." Fine, if I had the foggiest notion what was meant by "Low Slot Number", "Low Reference Slot Number", "High Slot Number", "High Reference Slot Number". Also "Slot#" and "Feeder Type", and why there are two of each those, and what the difference is between the 12 different feeder types, none of which is described in the manual at all. And how do I know the X, Y, Z coordinates of the different feeders, and how do I tell AutoProgram which component will be fed from which feeder, or does AutoProgram make these assignments for me? I'm sure 15 minutes of training would make all of this clear to me, but the manual is totally useless.

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MM

#68606

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 2 April, 2013

It has been years since I used autoprogram. But I believe your low reference number is your low slot number on the base and then the ref. is what slot you will teach your feeder ref. to the far left. And the High slot number is the higest slot number on your base and then the ref. will be where you teach your feeder for the far left of the base. This way your software will know how many feeders to teach for each base and the xy for each feeder. Yes the Autoprogram will assign the feeders for you. You will have to go to your machine to get the coordinates for the ref. points.

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#68614

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 2 April, 2013

That makes some sense. By knowing the coordinates of the leftmost and rightmost feeder, the others can be interpolated. As long as they are all the same type of feeder. But I still don't see how to configure an assortment of different types of vibratory feeders. Or different width tape feeders. And what is the difference between a latched and a bolt down vibratory feeder. In the screen for configuring a Tape and Latched Vibratory Feeder Base there seem to be no selections for a Feeder Type relating to any vibratory feeder. This thing is so confusing, and the documentation is so poor!

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RLM

#68620

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 3 April, 2013

The manuals will not teach you how to use Autoprogram but they will be a reference once you learn it. First you must configure your system. Try this and let me know how it goes.

To Configure a machine: -Under Machine Configuration Select Assembler/System -Select Tape and Latched Vibratory Feeder Base -Now you need to define the positions of your feeder bases. The instructions that follow are for the front feeder base only. -In the Side of machine pulldown menu select Front. -Low slot number should be 1. High slot number depends on the size of your feeder base (typically 70 for a full size feeder base). Low Reference slot number is the leftmost slot that can be reached by both the camera and the nozzle. I use slot #8. High reference slot number is the rightmost slot that can be reached by both the camera and the nozzle. I use slot #59. -Install a XF nozzle onto the Zrod. -Install and adjust a 8mm feeder loaded with a 0805 component, into slot 8 -On the handheld press pickup. It will display “pickup #”, press 1 (or any other number). Display should read V PICKUP 1. -Using the Forward, back, right, left keys center the camera crosshairs over the 0805 component that is in slot 8. Holding the SHIFT or ctrl while pressing the keys will speed up the head motion. -Once centered over the component press switch verify. This will move the nozzle over the component. Using the up down keys lower the nozzle until it just touches the component. You will probably need some kind of magnifier to see this or you can turn the vacuum on and off (switch vacuum button) and watch to see when the component gets pulled from the pocket. When you are satisfied with the height press the enter key until V enter cmd is displayed. -Now you need to retrieve the X, Y and Z coordinates from the machine. Press the function button, then press the pickup button. At PICKUP # enter the number that you used above (I usually use 1). Hit the enter button a few times until the X Y and Z coordinates are displayed. These are the numbers that you will enter into autoprogram for reference slot #8. Repeat this routine for reference slot # 59 and all other feeder bases. Refer to the picture on the Autoprogram screen for high & low slot orientation.

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#68624

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 3 April, 2013

OK, so I think I have figured out the machine configuration for tape feeders. BTW, your procedure for retrieving the X/Y/Z coordinates for the pickup locations was wrong. So I looked it up in the Quad manual. The manual was wrong too. Correct procedure is FUNCTION 3 ENTER PICKUP nn ENTER then hit enter repeatedly to view coordinates. I'm still not sure how it works if I use an assortment of different tape widths.

So now when I run "Feeder Optimization" I get errors on three parts I have that are not tape fed. One comes from a waffle tray, and two use vibratory tube feeders (two different sizes). I can't figure out how to configure these feeder types so Feeder Optimization works.

I think I could use "Edit Active Feeder Setup" to manually assign X/Y/Z coordinates for every pickup and get a program generated and just forget about feeder optimization. But that approach could be very time consuming with larger boards. How do I configure vibratory and waffle feeders for feeder optimization? This shouldn't be this hard.

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RLM

#68632

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 4 April, 2013

Autoprogram will use whatever tape feeder width is defined for that component (SMD type)and will adjust the pickup accordingly. Autoprogram will not tell you where to place Vibs and Matrix trays. You need to decide where to mount the holders. Then mount them and install the proper vib plate or matrix tray. Then get their coordinates and enter them into autoprogram. There are certain points on the plates & trays where the coordinates need to be found. You should be able to find this in the manual.

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#68633

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 4 April, 2013

I think I'm slowly figuring out vibratory feeders. Who would have thought to click on "Block Slot" to tell where a vibratory feeder was installed? So I defined two vibratory feeders. SOLIC is in slot 6, and SOIC-14/16 is in slot 42. I have two parts using vibratory feeders. One is assigned an SMD Type of SOLIC14, the other is SOIC14. When I try to run Feeder Optimization I get the following error:

SOL14/LM2574M-5.0/ No suitable lane found: either lanes are full, runtime plate undefined, or incompatible dimensions.

This is the part with type SOLIC14. There are no other parts using vibratory feeders. Why can't AutoProgram assign my SOLIC14 device to a lane on the SOLIC vibratory feeder? The SOLIC14 device has a width of 0.400. The escapement width on the feeder is 0.428 with a tolerance of 0.040. Why do I get this error?

BTW, what is the difference between a Top and a Bottom reference plate for a vibratory feeder? All my vibratory feeders have only one plate, as far as I can tell.

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RLM

#68634

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 5 April, 2013

I've never seen one but i've been told that there is a 2 tier vib plate where the top plate is set back a bit so that the nozzle can pick from the top and bottom plate.

OK so you have the plates on the machine and have entered their coordinates. Click feeder optimization, then Run-Time Vibratory plates. You should see both of your plates listed on the screen. Select one of the plates and then click edit at the top of the screen. Click parts on plate, bottom, and enter the part numbers that you want to use on that plate. Close out of the screens until you see the optimize screen and run the optimizer. Same deal for waffle trays. This software is full of little bugs things that don't make much sense but for the most part it works pretty well. You just have to use it for a bit and get used to it. Keep asking questions

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#68638

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 5 April, 2013

I have a clue about Feeder Optimization returning the error: SOL14/LM2574M-5.0/ No suitable lane found: either lanes are full, runtime plate undefined, or incompatible dimensions.

This error is happening when my vibratory feeder plate is set to "SOLIC", but not when the plate is set to "SOLIC, PLCC-20, SOIC". So I started to look at what the differences were between those plates. The lane widths were the same (0.428 for the SOIC lanes). But the escapement lengths were different (0.750 for the SOLIC plate that failed, but 0.550 for the plate that worked. So I decided to try changing the escapement length for the SOIC plate. Eureka! It works with an escapement length of 0.700, but failed for any escapement length >0.700. What is special about 0.700? My part is an SOLIC14, which has a length of 0.350. So 0.700 is exactly twice the length of the part.

Is there a problem feeding a part from a vibratory feeder if the escapement length is more that twice the length of a part? That would mean that two (or more) complete parts would fit in the escapement area. For example, can I feed an SOIC8 using an SOIC-14/16 vibratory feeder plate? I don't have any experience with this. Is AutoProgram telling me my SOLIC14 can't be fed using an SOLIC plate?

BTW, pre-assigning the parts to be used with each feeder plate does not resolve this problem.

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RLM

#68639

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 5 April, 2013

I have no idea why this limitation would be programmed in. Like I said before there a lot of wierd quirks whith this software and you may have just found one. Pre-assigning will not help if the software sees a mismatch between the feeder plate and the part. I have always found the vib & matrix trays to be a hastle. What I do is assign all parts to tape & reel even if I know they are supplied in tubes. I let Autoprogram optimize and assign a feeder location. When I get the program loaded onto the machine I just load the tubes onto the vib plate and re-teach the pickup for that part.

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#68642

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 5 April, 2013

I cheated on the escapement length for the SOLIC plate and got through Feeder Optimization and Generate Program without any errors. Some progress, but no I cant figure out how to the the generated program into the central controllers on the Quad IVc machines.

After the program was generated I had three boards listed on AutoProgram (850152, 850152A B1, and 850152A B2). I copied all three directories in their entirety onto a floppy. Unsure of which files needed to go into which central controller (there is one on each Quad IVc machine), I copied all three directories into the board directory of the first Quad IVc machine. Not that machine shows three baords, but they are 850152, 850152A and 850152A. No matter which board I select as my current board, when I use central controller to Edit the current board it shows me zero entried for the picks and zero entries for the places.

How do I get this data imported into central controller?

I cannot use the copy to disk function in AutoProgram because I don't have a floppy, and it fails if I try to copy the files to a folder on my hard drive. So I just manually copied the directories.

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RLM

#68647

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 8 April, 2013

What operating system are you using ? I have found that you need to stay with a DOS based operating system. I am running DOS 6.2 with windows 3.11. I tried win 98 and although it seemed to run properly, I would have problems in the final program. XP and above forget it. I have never tried just copying the folders without using the copy to disk feature. Not sure if it will work. It looks like AP has segmented your board into 2 programs. When you click on the Generate program button you are asked for the Minimum Sequence steps per segment and Maximum placements per program. Set those to 500 and 245. Unless your program is so large that it exceeds one of these to limits you should only generate 1 program.

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#68648

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 8 April, 2013

I have set Maximum Sequence Steps Per Program Segment to 450 and Maximum Placements Per Program Segment to 200. I have two Quad IVc machines, with a separate central controller in each one. One machine has a waffle feeder and will have vibratory feeders for ICs in tubes. The other machine will have only tape feeders. My program is to be split between the two machines.

My operating system configuration is complicated. I am running Windows XP. I know very well that AutoProgram will NOT run in XP. So I am running a DOS emulator called DOSBox on my XP computer. It emulates DOS version 5.0. Inside the DOSBox emulator I have installed a real copy of Windows 3.1, and am running AutoProgram under the Windows 3.1 running inside the DOSBox emulator. AutoProgram seems to run very well.

One problem I am having is that I cannot get the Copy to Disk function in AutoProgram to work. First of all, I have no floppy disk drive on my XP computer. Secondly, if I tell Copy to Disk to copy the files to some other folder, it always gives me the error "Incomplete directory copy. All files were not successfully copied to the destination directory. Make sure there is sufficient disk space available before retrying." Of course I do have sufficient free disk space. I have tons of Gigabytes of disk free space. Yet if I go to a DOS prompt in DOSBox and do a directory listing it tells me I have "only" about 262 MBytes of free space. I know that is not right. I think there is so much disk free space that AutoProgram can't handle it and can't figure out if there is enough free space or not.

So I need to know if the Copy to Disk function just copies files, or if it translates the files in some way for use by Central Controller. I think it just copies files, because when I Generate Program, one step that is reported is "Convert sequence data to Quad assembler format".

Maybe I could figure this out if I knew what files and folders were supposed to be copied to the disk when a program (split for two machines) is copied to a floppy. And once I have that floppy, how do I get the files imported or copied from the floppy to the central controllers of two different Quad IVc machines?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I just can't seem to get from here to there.

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RLM

#68649

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 8 April, 2013

I copied a program to a floppy and compared that to the files that were in my AP board directory and they are identical. In your board list directory (on your AP machine) look at picks.asc and places.asc and see if there is any good looking data there. If so it should transfer when copied if not it's probably your emulator.

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#68651

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 8 April, 2013

So my board is called 850152, and is in a folder called BRD297XX.DIR. AutoProgram generates the pick and place program (for two heads) without error. When it does, two more "boards" appear. 850152A B1 in folder BRD2C7XX.DIR, and 850152A B2 in folder BRD2C2XX.DIR. The latter two folders have only 3 files each, BDLAYOUT.DBF, BRDNAME.DAT, and BREAKUP.ASC. The BREAKUP.ASC files in the two folders are identical. I can copy any, or all 3, of these folders to a floppy disk.

Now what do I do to get the appropriate files into central controller for the two different Quad IVc machines? I have tried everything I can think of, and nothing works.

The 850152 board in the BRD297XX.DIR folder can be copied OK, and there is plenty of good looking data in the PICKS.ASC and PLACES.ASC files. But when I select the 850152 board in central controller and edit the pick or place data for either head 1 or head 2, it shows me zero entries!

If I try to copy the 850152A B1 or 850152A B2 board, central controller shows the board name as 850152A (or two boards by that name if I copy both), and then I can't delete them. I think CC doesn't like spaces in the board names, but these board names were created automatically by AutoProgram.

If anyone can give me detailed step-by-step instructions on how to get my data from AutoProgram into my two central controllers I would be most appreciative.

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RLM

#68652

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 9 April, 2013

I made a new program today that will run on 2 machines and my AP did not create the 2 additional boards that you are speaking of. I'm not sure what thats all about. This is my method: 1. Set up a Assembler/system in AP that includes both machines that you will be using (head 1 and Head 2) 2. Optimize and generate the program. DO NOT use the breakup for separate controllers option. 3. Load the program onto assembler #1 4. Select the board 5. goto "UTILITIES" , "DATABASE UTILITIES" , "CREATE/MODIFY MULTIPLE PROGRAMS" 6. Select the head that you wish to delete. In this case select head 2. 7. Hit F2 (this will delete all of the head 2 data from head1) 8. ESC back to the Editor screen and rename the board so that you'll know that it is the first segment of the assembly. Do the same on Assembler 2 but delete head 1 data.``

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#68662

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 10 April, 2013

I followed your instructions and did NOT select the option to break up the program for separate central controllers. I now have a program I can copy to central controller #1, and I can delete the head 2 data from the program. Now when I select RUN THE SYSTEM in central controller it downloads the program to the assembler, but gives me an error message "Component Defined for Assembler with no Upward Vision, Press ESC to continue".

After that if I hit the RUN button on the machine, the HHT shows the message "RUN DISABLED". If I hit CTRL+SINGLE STEP or CTRL_RUN STEP on the HHT I get the message "IDX DISABLED".

Of course, none of these error messages are in the Quad IVc manuals. I tried generating my program in AutpProgram both with and without the "Upward Vision (Vu4/6)" option checked for my head 1 configuration. No change. Head 1 has no components requiring vision alignment.

Any guesses? I seem to be stuck at another roadblock.

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RLM

#68666

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 11 April, 2013

I have never run across that error message before. Does the machine have Upward vision? Does this message only occur when trying to run programs that were generated by Autoprogram ? I think that I would create a new program with only 1 component, a resistor and see if the machine gives the same message. Even though you have no components that need vision alignment it is possible that one of them has vision alignment selected and that is causing the problem. The other messages Run & IDX disabled are probably caused by the vision issue.

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#68680

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 12 April, 2013

Some progress, now stuck again. I can now generate a pick and place program for two heads that actually runs the head 1 program when loaded into the central controller of machine #1. But all attempts at getting machine #2 to run the head 2 program have failed.

If I try to get AutoProgram to split the program for two central controllers, it does NOT generate any split programs at all, just one combined head 1 / head 2 program.

If I try to generate a non-split program, then load the program into each central controller (deleting head 2 data from machine 1 and deleting head 1 data from machine 2 per your instructions), I cannot get the program to run on machine #2. It tries to download the head 1 data to the assembler, which means if I have deleted head 1 data there is no data to load and I get an error. If I have not deleted the head 1 data, it is only the head 1 program that loads and runs. It seems the machine does not know it is supposed to be head 2.

So I tried reconfiguring the machine to be a head 2 machine. The documentation was poor, but I finally changed switch 2 settings on the EPCU board, changed MOD code 23 from 1 to 2, and changes a DEVICE line in the central controller configuration file. I think that made the machine think it was supposed to be head 2. But now when I attempt to download the program to the assembler, I get an error saying the assembler is off line. So I changed everything back. Now it runs the head 1 program (if I don't delete head 1 data).

Help! How do I get my head 2 program running an the second Quad IVc machine? This thing is driving me crazy.

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#68694

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 17 April, 2013

I have not been on this site for a while but I was reading your post on Autoprgram.

I have had my share of fun with this program getting a Quad 2C to run I purchased a while back. I had originally tried the DosBox approach but ran into all kinds of issues and gave up on DosBox.

The Quad came with the original Prolinea computer and it had Windows 3.1. After reading many threads on this site I discovered the software will run OK on Windows 95.

I ended up getting an old IBM Thinkpad off of ebay that runs Windows 95 directly on the hardware. I bought a spare drive for the Prolinea and setup a new system with Windows 95. I networked these two computers and use the Thinkpad as my "laptop" to program the board files and parts for the Quad.

I cant tell you how many hours it took to work around some of these quirks but I have been successfully using the machine for about a year now.

I realize this is not much help for the head 2 problem but I thought I would mention the Thinkpad as a possible portable hardware solution. It at least has worked well for me.

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#68695

Quad IVc AutoProgram | 18 April, 2013

To use 2 heads in autoprogram.....each one should be defined in the assembler system. You have to use the option to breakup programs for seperate central controllers if indeed they both have their own computer. The most important thing is each assembler has a 'group number'......the first head should be number 1 and the second assembler should be 'group 2'......this is assuming each machine has its own computer and central controller.

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