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Selective Solder machines

Views: 6360

#67579

Selective Solder machines | 1 November, 2012

My company is looking to purchase a new selective solder system. We're currently looking at the ACE KISS 205 and the ERSA Versaflow3. I am hoping to get some feedback from anyone who has worked with either of these machines or the companies themselves. I know ERSA uses an electro magnetic pump, does anyone have any experience with them?

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#67580

Selective Solder machines | 1 November, 2012

I have used the Versaflow 40/50 which is the model before the 3. The machine is a very good machine, the electro magnetic pumps work well and do not cause alot of dross.

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#67584

Selective Solder machines | 2 November, 2012

The versa flow is defiantly a better machine. However its not a fair comparison the versa flow costs about 4 times the cost of the ace. For the money the Ace is a good machine.

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#67589

Selective Solder machines | 2 November, 2012

We have 2 ACE machines running 2 shifts per day, 6 days a week. Maintenance costs have been minimal. Performance very consistent. Great machines for the $$. Certainly not complex. Hence the K.I.S.S. logo. I don't have any experience with the "big guys" of Selective Soldering, but the ACE machines have not disappointed us at any time. If we are missing some technology or controls that the others (big guys) do have, it is not apparent in our results! 'hege

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#67593

Selective Solder machines | 6 November, 2012

We also have 2 ACE machines. Great machines, good support. Keep them clean and do the maintenance on the solder pots and pumps and you'll have no issues.

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#67594

Selective Solder machines | 6 November, 2012

We own two KISS 305 machines from ACE. Extremely happy with the machine. More so, with thier support. The support is the best from any vendor I deal with which is a critical part of our operations. Another thing is thier continuing R & D work. They are continously improving their equipment.

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#67596

Selective Solder machines | 6 November, 2012

Had to clarify. The machines I have from ACE are 103's. They are on the cutting edge!

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#67734

Selective Solder machines | 5 December, 2012

I've got four KISS 103s. If you keep up with the pump cleaning and especially keep your nozzles clean on the Lead Free, they are great.

The only downside with them is that they are West Coast and we are East Coast, so if I have an issue first thing in the morning, I can't reach the factory until 10am. But I can usually get the East Coast service guys on the phone to help me out. You'll figure out which "spares" to keep on hand.

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#67860

Selective Solder machines | 19 December, 2012

Versaflow3 is way better than KISS103. I had them both and I don't see any comparison.they are different class machines.

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#67942

Selective Solder machines | 16 January, 2013

In the same way my BMW gets me to work and back, it is a much different class (pricewise)than a Toyota Camry, yet both accomplish the same goal. Every day. Is the BMW a "better" car? Is the Camry a lesser vehicle, even if it gets me to work on time every day?

Interesting point, and a thing that repeats itself in this industry often enough. Tool A works fine, Tool B works fine also, but cost twice as much as tool A. Tool B must be better. (grin)

If I could buy Versaflow for the cost of KISS, I might do it. But as pointed out, the service from ACE is noteable, and that is worth considering.

I also figure that the guys over at Versaflow are pretty good on service too, and shouldn't we all be?

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#67945

Selective Solder machines | 17 January, 2013

They should definitely have a like button here :-)

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#67990

Selective Solder machines | 22 January, 2013

I would not consider KISS unless you have a limited budget and very low production volume as they are not well built enough to be considered "production" machines. That means they will not last as well as a machine from ERSA, Seho, or EBSO which coincidentally are all built in Germany. I have sold and serviced all of these brands, and taken a KISS trade in in the past. Not impressed - it's built like a toy.

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#67992

Selective Solder machines | 22 January, 2013

Funny how things can be looked at from two sides. Not sure what would be considered low volume in the above post. Our first KISS machine has been producing product for well over 4 years now, double shifts every day, and about 50% of the saturdays during the same period. We have kept up with the scheduled maintenance, and have replaced a few wear items over that time. Based on the performance/cost, we installed machine number two 2 years ago, and it has been a carbon copy in terms of servicability and production rate.

Rather than describing the machine as toylike, I would say that the machine simply has no added engineering and goodies that are not neccessary to producing through hole solder joints. Is is simple, and the design reflects just that. Simple to set up, operate, and maintain.

I think the blanket statement that the machine is for low budgets or low volume is inaccurate at best. In my opinion,(and everyone has one) it is just sensible money spent, with a faster ROI due to reduce initial outlay. I doubt that I am alone on this island, but I might be...

We do still maintain both ERSA and SEHO for wave solder when needed, so were are not unfamiliar with "higher spec" German machines.

I do not work for, nor do I receive any benefits from ACE Selective Soldering, other than what the machines provide on a daily basis, which is through hole solder joints, and, due to the simplicity of the design, lack of hassles. 'hege

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#67994

Selective Solder machines | 23 January, 2013

'hege I agree with you 1000%.

I wouldn't be at all be surprised if the previous poster was a used equipment broker. And I'd bet $$$ to Doughnuts that he's got a few used, high end, German built machines lying around that he wouldn't mind unloading. I can almost guarantee that he doesn't have any ACE units, because users rarely separate themselves from equipment that has been reliable and trouble free.

That’s just my opinion...

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#67996

Selective Solder machines | 23 January, 2013

Guys, I understand you don't get anything from ACE, but you probably should :)

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