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MyData A12 tool tip damage

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MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/06-12 by John  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/08-12 by FredC  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/20-12 by Peter Allgood  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/26-12 by John  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by Peter Allgood  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by Sr.Tech  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by Peter Allgood  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by Sr.Tech  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by John  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 06-/27-12 by Sr.Tech  

MyData A12 tool tip damage - 07-/17-12 by John  


John

#66531

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 6 June, 2012

As in a previous thread, we have the A12 tool tip on our TP9-UFP get sliced/damaged at random times while picking parts. Sometimes it doesn't happen for several weeks, but sometimes twice in a day. There are enough locations for the magazines needed (no swapping magazines on the fly). The air flow to the machine is not blocked and the fans are functional.
Is the Service Program on floppies? I didn't see that the poster of the original A12 thread ever found a solution.
Thanks to anyone who takes time to respond.

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FredC

#66547

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 8 June, 2012

The original post was back in 2007. My most recent communication with Peter was last year and he was still having the problem 4 years later. Since it is temperature related, I am suspecting the card in question got partially cooked once and is now allways temperature sensative.
I will email Peter again to see if he has a recent fix.

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Peter Allgood

#66632

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 20 June, 2012

Hi John

Yes I am still having the same problems years later! It keeps Fred in work supplying me with replacement tips too! Mydata came up with a supposed fix to alter a parameter called prepick which puts a pause in I think allowing the head to stabilise - seemed to work a bit but when we get really hot weather it comes back - rare in the UK but it does happen.

We can be fairly sure that if the shop temp goes towards 80 degrees we start to see trouble. It is not position sensitive on the machine but entirely random where a strike will occur - I have caught it once or twice, the head arives at the pick position and does a wobble, catching the tip on the side of the metal separator spring, often bending that as well.

It only ever seems to affect the A12 tool but suspect that is just the one we use the most and the other tips being bigger are more rugged.

Mydata are sure the problem is in the booster unit on the back of the machine - have a look at local temperatures around the machine - we dropped the booster panel at the back and arranged desk fans to blow over it which seemed to help until the ambient temp rose when of course all you are doing is blowing 80 degree air over the heatsink. Next thing to try is a portable aircon unit blowing chilled air in the general direction.

Let me know how you get on!

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John

#66669

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 26 June, 2012

Thanks for responding Fred and Peter.

We have had the same damage to the tip occur even though our TP9-UFP sits in an air conditioned room (74 F / 23 C).

I spoke with Matt at MyData (who was very helpful).

He said that the X-axis bearings, the X-axis belt, the booster and the small X-motor that rides on the Midas head were all suspect. It would cost us $ 14,000 (US dollars) to upgrade. The small X-motor is no longer available from MyData as it was discontinued from the manufacturer.

In discussing the tool strikes, he told me that the machine starts a new PCB and grabs the A12 tool. Since it knows that no tall parts have been placed, it will place the first few parts slowly and then "speed up". After the first few placements, the Z-axis doesn't go all the way back up after picking or placing. It only goes up far enough to clear the spring tape clips on the feeders. That's where the "speed up" comes from. Also, the Z-axis starts down before the X-axis reaches its stopping point above the part or above the location to place.

Matt said that considering the machine's age, and in lieu of the upgrade (remember - no motor available), that adjusting parameters might alleviate the strikes.

The X-axis acceleration and Z-axis acceleration are adjustable (highest, high, low, lowest) for individual packages in the Package Editor. The setting for each package could be made as necessary. In the Parameter Editor, 16 X-axis and 19 Z-axis settings for acceleration are accessible (0 = fastest, 10 = slowest).

Our settings when the experiment started:
X-axis highest 0
high 0
low 1
lowest 1
Z-axis highest 0
high 0
low 2
lowest 4
We are experimenting with the settings. Currently we have not made changes to the X-axis settings. We changed our Z-axis settings to:
Z-axis highest 3
high 3
low 4
lowest 5
Since our experiment is underway, we don't yet have any conclusions. (NO tool damage since the change, though).

Let me know what you think. Thanks for reading.

John

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Peter Allgood

#66673

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

Very interesting - esp that you have removed the temperature variable by being airconditioned. We defeinitely do not get strikes at 74 but do at 80 - but also we dont start the machine when its 80, that is the afternoon tempertaure on a rare hot day but the machine will have been on for several hours by then.

We went through the Mydata "it must be this that and the other" - we felt they didnt know! There are tests that you can do on the small motor, all ours passed and it is serviced regularly. What you say about the Z axis parameters is interesting though and I shall be very interested to hear your conclusions.

I am sure it all hinges on the way it starts down before it comes to a halt - I'd be happy to trade a few milliseconds to let it stabilise first.

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Sr.Tech

#66676

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

Your tool tips are being damaged because the small x-motor is not engaging when the head is picking parts. When this happens the head overshoots and you bang the tips on the mag springs.
Directly after a tip gets damaged go into the service program and pulse the small x-motor and see if it moves.If it doesn't it is typically a problem with the big booster in the back or the motor itself.You can also verify that it is working by stepping through placements or trimming a magazine. There should be no "bouncing"
A hot booster will absolutely cause this issue. If you look at the board on the booster closely you will see that there is a power output there for fans. We mounted two muffin fans directly under the booster and the problem went away.

There is a place in Texas called A-1 Servo Repair that will fix your small x-motor if it's bad.

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Peter Allgood

#66677

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

We concur - we reduced problems by lowering the booster panel to the horizontal and putting two pedestal fans behind the machine blowing onto it - but I think once the ambient air has heated up the cooling effect is reduced of course - we have a small a/c unit to blow some chilled air on it to try next - but hot days are rare here!.

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Sr.Tech

#66679

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

You can leave the booster in the original position and mount two small fans directly underneanth it blowing upward. By leaving it in the original upright position you get quite a bit of air velocity in the small space between the booster and the machine body. This has worked for us for 15 years. Our ambient is rarely over 80degF.
I would post a picture but the machine is buttoned up and running production right now.

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John

#66680

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

Thanks for the information and insights. Our booster is probably getting too hot, even with AC. There is bouncing when we trim component locations. Every so often, while trimming component locations, the x-axis will start to slowly move away (by itself) from the programmed location. Please tell me where the fan connector is on the booster board and what voltage fans you used.

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Sr.Tech

#66681

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 27 June, 2012

If the X axis is moving then maybe your Elmo is not adjusted correctly. There is a procedure to adjust it in the manual(assuming you have the original manual).

The correct location is XGTS which is a white connector on the booster. The fans are 24V

Attachments:

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John

#66838

MyData A12 tool tip damage | 17 July, 2012

As as per your information and photo, we attached two box fans under our booster and attached them to the white XGTS connector. The fans are blowing upward with airflow between the booster board and the back of the machine. We will carefully watch for "bouncing" when we trim magazines and check placement locations.
Thanks again for taking time to respond.

reply »

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