Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


PickNPlace machine suggestions?

Views: 6066

#52162

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 23 October, 2007

I have been had doing surface mount boards for a while and am now looking for a cheap fairly small footprint machine to help get more boards out.

The problem is I don't know a lot about pick and place machines and there are so many different kinds sizes prices I'm overwhelmed.

The speed of the machine isn't all that important as little as 500 Parts per hour would be better than I can hand place. The main things are that its fairly cheap and will work without a bunch of trouble.

Suggestions?

Thanks, Daniel

reply »

#52167

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

Daniel,

We'd recommend MyData's as good low foot print, short quantity machines. They have a good level of flexibility for the price and operation.

Considering what you've described, an older used TP9 would suit you. I'll caution you, though, that the TP9 is an old platform for MyData, and does lack a fair amount of functionality that you may need. Notably, 0402's and BGA's, while they can be placed, can be painful to do so.

Cheers ..rob

reply »

#52174

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

While many here would probably shoot themselves at the thought, I'd recommend a Quad IVc. You can't get much smaller, they're easy to set up, easy to operate, and for the most part run pretty much forever with minimal maintenance because they're so mechanically simple. I also like the fact that with the motor driven feeders you can recover from missed picks, so wasted parts are minimal.

They are limited as far as capability (we have some 0402 "certified" feeders but the machine is really only about 90% effective at picking and placing them...I suppose we might be able to find a better nozzle) and I wouldn't want to do too much placing of parts below 20 mil pitch.

Edited to add that I think those other guys have a different definition of "cheap" than I do.

reply »

#52175

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

We are running an upgraded, refurbished MyData TP9 machine in our high mix, low volume production. With those improvements it does okay on the 0402s. The TP platform is no longer in production but they are still providing good support for machines in the field. I would suggest purchasing a MY9 with a single tool head and only the magazines, feeders and placement tools that you currently need. This will give you placement rates up to 3,000 CPH and you can add more magazines, feeders and tools in the future as your needs change.

reply »

#52180

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

Let me add to the Mydata thing..

TP9-2U=..... TP9UFP=Good MY9=Best

TP9 UFPs will place 0402's fine as long as you have black tools and run them across the camera. This method is slow but it works.

reply »

#52183

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

You could have look at LASER QUADRA Pick & Place Machine manufactured by TWS Automation, Italy (www.tws-automation.com). Its a small foot print, 3000CPH, 0402 capable, 20mil capable, BGA capable, machine with motorized feeders . Dispenser is an option.

reply »

#52190

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 24 October, 2007

I agree with Steve Thomas, The Quad IVC is a good machine for what you have described, it is small, chugs right along and is dependable. 1 head makes for some boredome watching it but is well over the 500 component mark. Good Luck with your purchase.

reply »

#52204

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 25 October, 2007

Wow guys thanks for all the info. I have a lot of research to do before I make any decisions I guess :)

reply »

#52217

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 26 October, 2007

Check at model MC-384 from Manncorp This model sells for under $50,000 including feeders, Cognex Flying Vision and bottom vision to handle everything from 0201 thru 12 mil pitch QFP and BGA`s

reply »

#52233

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 30 October, 2007

You may want to clarify how much $$$ you have. If you look at a quad 4C call PPM, I believe they have a windows based operating system now. I think a 4C with some feeders would cost you $5K to $20K depending on condition and feeders. I believe you want Quadalign system not the cyber optics.

reply »

#52269

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 1 November, 2007

Sorry everyone...you all seem to be fond of the MyData machines. I just had to make a comment. We had a TP9 for about 2 years. It rarely got used because of the terrible programming interface..When compared to Fuji Flexa and Fuji machines, we really didn't use it a whole lot. When things got busy, I was tasked with programming a product and it took me a week. During production the machine broke down; a problem with the vacuum, servo amp and z-axis. MyData wanted CRAZY money for replacement parts. WAY too much. over $500 for a nylon gear. oh yah, it costs about $5000 per magazine if you want to get more and the inserts are expensive as well. The tech support was terrible..they were unable to be of assistance with our troubles. In general, I am slightly bias. I've been working with Fuji for about 10 years now and I really think they are amazing machines. I'm not really experienced with any other brand, so I can't be of much help with making suggestions. I would just hate for you to have an equally bad experience with a MyData machine.

reply »


afm

#52286

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 3 November, 2007

Daxman, From Fuji which model you recomend for low production runs?

reply »

#52292

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 4 November, 2007

If we're comparing a TP9 or a MY9 to anything FUJI, I think the IP3 has it beat by a long shot. You can get a used IP3 with an MTU for under 35k. The only downside is that you require a programming interface with Fuji and it's built into the MyData. MCS is a little tedious but a lot of people still use it due to cost effectivness. I'd really recommend purchasing Flexa though.

reply »

#52297

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 5 November, 2007

WOW! What a horror story. Well I got a Philips CSM84, having never programmed a P&P machine before, or actually ever seeing one run. I got some manuals with it that were for a different model, but they were pretty close. I had some trouble getting the serial interface to work, but I was running my first board in 2 days! After 5 different boards I now have it down pretty much, so I can start with data from the CAD package and have the first board run in a couple hours. If I had a better system for managing the feeders and parts it would probably even be less. It has a very clunky "DOS"like character screen interface, but it is VERY straightforward. This particular machine doesn't have any vision or part verification, I know that sort of stuff takes additional time.

I did write a small C program to take the P&P file from the CAD system, and a file that lists feeder #'s, component types and their orientation on the tapes, and which nozzle to use, and produces a file formatted for the machine.

Jon

reply »

#52300

PickNPlace machine suggestions? | 5 November, 2007

Hi,

I have experience with both Fuji and MYDATA, and while I am so incredibly happy with the Fuji, and Fuji Flexa is a good programming tool, MYDATA machines are not that hard to program at all, and the visual interface where you can move around the product is very nice for simple products and small runs.

I had a TP9, and it was ok, and I would recommend it for small mixed runs. Ours was simple to program, and ran well. I would however not recommend MYDATA for large production runs at all but for smaller companies, I think that's a very good option.

Grant

reply »

SMT Machines

PCB equipment