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CSM Technical Question

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#52001

CSM Technical Question | 8 October, 2007

I have a CSM 84 that preforms origin and manual opperation. The Comp. and Brd. DATA is all present, However when I try to place in run mode the Lines of the program do not load and I get an Error. and when I press the reset The program lines do not load either. It is like all data is there but will not load to the machine controller. anybody have any ideas?

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#52027

CSM Technical Question | 10 October, 2007

Does it give any more info about the error? Is this in the stage after you've hit run, it says "initializing" and it is counting up on the screen? Usually it gives a little more info, although it can still be cryptic. I have run into it stopping with an error there when there was incompatible info in the component and mount information. A couple things I can think of are trying to use head 3 on feeders 1-3, using a head not set as type "IC" with the mechanical alignment unit, any pick-up coord in the component table that would move the head past the machine limits, any mount location that would do the same (these I think give very specific explanations to the error).

Anyway, there are a whole bunch of things you can do when downloading a mount program, like having a feeder location or head number that exceeds what the machine has installed. When it gets the error, it should still have the item number it was checking when it found something wrong, that should be equivalent to the M number in the mount file or screen. Check it carefully for consistency, make sure if you use a fiducial for that part that the fiducial is set up right.

If it doesn't even start counting up, then it may be the block fiducial has something wrong with it.

Have you run other boards on this machine with no problem.? Without any setup change, you should be able to initialize for one of those jobs and see if it gets to the "waiting for board" stage with that program. That would pretty much confirm it has to do with the specific program.

Did this just turn up after you had run this same program before (doesn't sound likely) or is this a new program that hasn't been run before? (Been there, done that, usually only took me 10 minutes to find what I'd done wrong.)

Jon

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#52029

CSM Technical Question | 11 October, 2007

Jon, Thank you for your input, I think you may be correct in that the Brd./Comp. of Fid data may not be correct any more. The unit was caught up in a flash flood just high enough in our facility to get the processor board. After cleaning and drying all powered up fine "origin , Manual opperation. But when loading the program it just gives an error I think it said error 79 opperation interupted. When I looked into the program I found glitches " white squares ar $ sign's where numbers or letters used to be letters or numbers missing at randum. I tried to clean them up "edit them" but still had the same results when trying to run the program. At this point I'm going to remove all data and start with a new program and see what happens. Do you offer phone support? if so How much per hour? I should tell you I'm new to Philips opperation and time reading criptic manuals and opperating the 84 and 84 VIII or about equal. the VIII came up and ran perfictly. Brds are mounted verticly and dint see as much watter.

inquiry @ a-c-tech.com

Thank you Bruce

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#52038

CSM Technical Question | 11 October, 2007

Ohh, MY! Well, there is a whole block of info that is machine specific. There are 4 things on the main menu, the last one is the system calibrations. It has offsets between the primary reference (if you don't have vision, like mine) then the beam sensor is the primary reference, and all the heads and teach camera offsets are relative to the beam sensor. Then, there are offsets for the machine limits, the front and back feeder rail, mech alignment if present, and probably some other stuff. It is over a whole screen page of stuff. You hopefully have a copy of all this, otherwise you are in big trouble. I've had to tweak some of these offsets as some were just zeroed out and others were a bit off due to modifications of the machine before I got it, or maybe the shipping moved things.

Then, of course, there is the component and mount data, which should be reloadable.

I could give you some help with this stuff, but clearing all the component data (if trashed) and the board data would be the first thing to do. The blinking squares sound like the battery-backed memory contents has been partially lost. Do you have a floppy on the machine? Do you have serial communications working to it? Otherwise, you'd need to enter all this by hand - no fun!

My phone # is 314-965-5523, and I would be easiest to get hold of in the morning or evening, central time.

Jon

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#52040

CSM Technical Question | 11 October, 2007

Jon,

The machine keept the positions / offsets ECT. I think just the battery back up went on the CPU brd due to the flood watters and it looks like it just affected the brd data.I will be trying reprogramming a new brd in the morning. I will call you and let you know how I come out. and we can discuss technical support if you open for it. been a little busy with the VIII today!

Thank you for your time.

Bruce Anderson

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#52064

CSM Technical Question | 12 October, 2007

As far as I know, ALL data in the machine, so the machine configuration and offsets, the component data and the PCB mounting data are all held in the one battery-backed memory. If it goes completely, you lose ALL of the above.

But, you will see what has gotten garbled.

Jon

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#52083

CSM Technical Question | 16 October, 2007

Jon,

All is lost and now with feedback errors, "Just a parts machine now. I'm certain it's just contact points "terminal blocks" but it's just not going to be a trust worthy machine. You help and time are appreciated.

Bruce

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#52092

CSM Technical Question | 16 October, 2007

Yeah, getting water into electronics, especially when there is power on, even just battery power, is REALLY bad business. I was rather surprised that you only lost part of the memory if water got up to the board. It may be fixable, but you may have corrosion in hidden places, so you are right, it may no longer be reliable. What a sad story. I hope you had insurance for this!

Jon

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#52093

CSM Technical Question | 16 October, 2007

Oh, wait a minute. I have the complete control box from a CSM 66 III machine, Philips type 1306/40. That's the first one with the AC servo motors. The older ones had a stack of boards connected with masses of cables, the 1306/40 and later had a backplane and very little cables in the box. If that stuff would do you any good, it is just sitting in my basement, as it is not compatible with the machine I have, which is a 1306/20. It came off a machine in full, running condition.

Jon

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#52097

CSM Technical Question | 17 October, 2007

This box has the I/O card mounted sideways under it's own cover on the side of the main box. The CPU card is the bottom card. The Two driver cards X/Y and R/Z are side by side and mount to a steel base pannel with there relays at the back. but even if it's the same configuration whats the odds the harness would pin out the same.our major problem is getting the rest of the plant up and running "our through Hole" that is what we have work for. Thats progressing well and a truck is due in today with what we had to buy! I had put the SMT line together over the last year and a half to go looking for work for it but didnt have any product running at the time of the flood. It's just that in the middle of putting everything back together two different customers for SMT assembly sent quote request's "How Ironic" I'll just watch for a deal on a straight CSM 84 they can be had reasonable if your there at the right time.

and concintrate on the CSM VIII it was on risers so it didnt get as wet. Seems to work but Either a programming error of watter at the driver plug-in in caused the Y axis to attempt to exit the machine! cooked the Y axis linear bearing. machine seems fine just need the bearing to finnish evaluating the machine. Its a heavier bearing than the CSM 84 20 mm Sq. with dual races on each side.

Have any?

Thanks again Bruce P.S. had a ton of insurance none of it covered watter damage. F.E.M.A. dont help business SBA will help "if you can provide the forms/Doc/ Qouts from 3 parties kind of thing.

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#52105

CSM Technical Question | 17 October, 2007

The outboard I/O card is similar on both versions. But, that's where the similarity ends. The III machines (1306/40 and above) have a row of vertical boards that plug into a backplane on the bottom of the box. The 1306/20 and earlier have the boards as you say above, plus a lot of internal cables. So, this box I have won't do you any good on your older machine, which needs the same electronics as my running machine. If you need parts for your V-III at some time, I probably will still have this thing for a while.

Jon

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#52106

CSM Technical Question | 17 October, 2007

so as long as the machine is a III series weather 66 or 84 you are thinking the electronics and possibly bearing may be the same?

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#52110

CSM Technical Question | 17 October, 2007

Yes, mostly. The computer just has a setting for which size frame it is in (66, 84 or whatever). The bearing slider is almost certainly the same, too, although the rails are a different length. As best as I can tell, my 1306/20 (which is NOT a III) seems to use the same rail/slider setup as the other 1306 machines. So, it looks like the beefed-up gantry came in with the 1306/xx model. I certainly have 4 slider bearing units on my Y axis gantry, and they do have double tracks on each side of the rail. I can't imagine there was a need to beef up this assembly any more, it is solid as a rock! I'm guessing this beefing-up of the gantry was to allow the added mass with the vision cameras and Z axis head drive.

The Philips type no. is what to go by, it is printed on a label next to where the hand-held keypad connects, the hour meters and RS-232 connectors are. If they call the machine a 1306/40, it will say "type 130640" on that label.

Jon

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