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Universal 4796B Questions...

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Hey everyone. I'm looking for as much information as possibl... - Aug 10, 2007 by Ben Tigano  

#51356

Universal 4796B Questions... | 10 August, 2007

Hey everyone. I'm looking for as much information as possible on the Universal 4796B chipshooter. We currently have a few 4785's, and are getting a couple of 4796B's next week. Mainly, I'm just looking for information on the NCZ file format that the machine uses, program optimization (should the program be optimized or will the machine do it?). Also, information on the part libraries would be greatly appreciated (are they readable text files, or some kind of encrypted .db file like the 4785 uses?). Links, helpful hints, facts, anything would be great. I'm just trying to do a little preparation before the arrival.

Thanks in advance everyone.

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#51361

Universal 4796B Questions... | 10 August, 2007

The parts libraries are not readable text. The Sanyo software we used (UCT, I believe) would optimize the program for you.

NCZ format is different than the 4785 .800 format, but if you can understand the 4785 format you won't have any problems with the 4796 format. As for the codes like P and Q, and putting in program blocks, I believe that works the same way.

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#51364

Universal 4796B Questions... | 10 August, 2007

I think I still have the Service manual for 4796 if You are interested. If so You can have it for free. This is the manual that UIC/Sanyo tech engineers use, but maybe it is no good for you since it will req. training on the machine and also know exactly what you are doing. And it is UCT30 I believe MS-Dos based. The s/w from early 90:s works very vell. However, You might find it hard to get a hold on an old pc that works... It's a matter of fact that this machine is capable of doing something that Fuji:s chipshooter never achieved. For instnce the X-Y pick up correction. Meaning that it can handle feeder mispick very well. The nozzle head will rotate and compensate for any misalignment of the component in both X and Y. The camera/vision system will compensate for that and update the information for that particular nozzle on that specific head, so It's ready for the next pick on dead center in the feeder/tape pocket..

There is something to be aware of: PCB thickness is not programble. Instead You must have several set's of board support pin's. This is crucial, otherwise you will find yourself with either cracked chips or misplaced chips... The pcb grows downwords, meaning that no matter of how thick the pcb is, the top surface will always be in the very same position. BTW, Sanyo is the owner of the patented high speed turret...

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#51368

Universal 4796B Questions... | 11 August, 2007

Hello cuculi. I was actually the guy you sent the .pl file to a while back to help me out with the .800 program optimization. Speaking of which, the Perl code reminded me a lot of PHP, and was extremely helpful, so thanks again.

Hopefully I'll be able to just make a few changes in the way the file is outputted in my software for the old .800 format. I've got just about everything handled for generating a .800 file. Although I haven't handled panelized PCB's with different rotations on each block. It's no big deal though, I'll take care of it soon.

Did you end up getting an AOI system in place?

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#51384

Universal 4796B Questions... | 13 August, 2007

Our UCT runs on windows. I like to use UPS then drop that program on the machine then save it to UCT after it's running well. I guess mostly because I'm used to UPS/uploading CAD data. However, if you use UPS in combo with UCT you must be sure to update component libraries back and forth and you need a partitioned drive with OS2WARP. I think the toughest part is getting the feeders to pick initially; we have gotten good at guessing at feeder B offsets (cal. your feeder 0,0's if you have a jig). Our 4796B has programmable board thickness. It is very important to get it right or you get a pile of parts or the board will bow up and push nozzles into the first parked position in the head and you'll soon be out of nozzles. If you have the camera component teach option, it's nice and easy to use. Make sure your nozzle database is correct when you first fire up as you'll run into trouble when you do your lighting histograms and nozzle center teach. Our 4796 is also picky on embossed vs. paper tape. Make sure you have the correct feeder when you set up the library for a given part or you will have trouble (I believe it has something to to with "Z" pick-up defaults). "Component verticle" settings are also a bit tricky so I usually bump them up a bit in comp. library so as to not get as many rejects. Other than that, easy money...

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#51386

Universal 4796B Questions... | 13 August, 2007

Ben,

I'm glad I could help. Since I've rewritten the code in Java, and I think it's much nicer now. We still don't have an AOI in place, so I don't know what is happening with that.

There are Windows versions of UCT you can use for the 4796. UCT60.4 or UCT50.2 (or maybe it is 6.04 and 5.02, I forget) is what I have used in the past. We were able to run it on Windows NT, but using Windows 98 or earlier wouldn't be a bad idea. If you need a copy, let me know. I bet if we checked with Hitachi High Tech they would say it was OK for me to give you a copy. They seem to be pretty reasonable about that type of thing.

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#51421

Universal 4796B Questions... | 16 August, 2007

I'm not really "into" any versions of Windows before XP. I just tried it out on XP and everything loads up fine. I haven't communicated to any machines with it yet, but the settings for the COM ports should be the same on any version of Windows.

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#51436

Universal 4796B Questions... | 16 August, 2007

The 4796 always has at least one program loaded in memory. The 4796 talks to the world over a serial port, so you will need some version of UCT. I used windows NT machines and the code worked fine. The component database is standalone, in binary, and can only be edited from UCT or the machine. As for the placement program, it is a flat ASCII file that is easily reversed engineered if you stare at it for a while. I did many an ECO in either notepad or EXCEL. If you use EXCEL only copy the placement lines, don't bother with the header lines at the top of the file. You can fix any of the header lines on the machine. I mentioned the machine will come with a program. You can copy that one out and use to to make new ones. I did this until I got a CAD exporter for my design files. The UCT comes with a pretty good optimizer. I miss my machines, moved to a place with a CP6.

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#51444

Universal 4796B Questions... | 16 August, 2007

I am truly sorry to say that I was was thinking about the old 4790 -92 machine in my thread. My mind must have slipped...

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#51448

Universal 4796B Questions... | 17 August, 2007

Is the component databases "binary text" the "universal" type of binary? Or is it some different kind of binary? I'm gonna try to load up one of the files later on, character by character, and see if I can make any sense out of it.

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#51449

Universal 4796B Questions... | 17 August, 2007

Actually, if I can't figure out these .DB% and .EN% files soon, I'm gonna start ripping apart UCT to see what I can find. There is no good reason for them to make something like that non-accessible.

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#51458

Universal 4796B Questions... | 17 August, 2007

No it is not any "western known" standard. Of course it is a binary type of data. But yes, it is possible to trace the RS232 data stream and interpret et the actual info. I know that this has been done before. You might want to just take a phone call to UIC in Frankfurt, Germany. They have an exclusive s/w development department that have produced s/w to be able to communicate with virtual any machine on the market. We have No relationship, nor any benefits from them.

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#51493

Universal 4796B Questions... | 21 August, 2007

Ben, Are these 4796 machines registered with UIC? If so, you may be interested in the many online knowledgebases they have, as well as some of their format coversion tools.

sending an email to HSPTECHS@UIC.com may also get you some answers from the experts.

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#51495

Universal 4796B Questions... | 21 August, 2007

Thanks vickt. I'll shoot them an email.

I haven't had any luck ripping apart the central library file formats in the binary format. Hopefully the HSP techs can help me out.

I was also told you can export components created on the machine, to the floppy disk, which is in text format. I might just check the format of that. If it is able to export, then it must be able to import, right?

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#51534

Universal 4796B Questions... | 24 August, 2007

Well, everything works with UCT52 on WinXP, except Components Library and Pattern Program Data in the Main Menu. I can communicate with the machine back and forth for management data, and nozzle data, but I cannot send NCZ programs over, or interact with the component library. When I try to open either of these items on the main menu, I get an error which states "File reading failed." or "Error reading file."

Any ideas on what it could be?

Also, the install went okay, and all the exe's, dlls, and directories were created/moved correctly. All drives (C:\ and D:\) have write access also, so it can't be that either.

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#51568

Universal 4796B Questions... | 27 August, 2007

Does anyone think that the errors could be caused by not having any files in the LIB folder in the C:\ directory? I don't have a Component Library Disk.

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