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need help with Philips CSM84

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#48700

need help with Philips CSM84 | 28 March, 2007

Hello, I was the guy asking about doorway size for a Philips CSM84. Well, we cut the doorway using the best info we could get, and managed to get the machine inside with only a few scratches on the paint! Still no door, hopefully the fabricator will get that done tomorrow and we can get rid of the plywood!

I wonder if there is someone who knows the older CSM84 who would be willing to give me some help learning how to program the machine?

The guy who sold it to me scrapped out a CSM66 and sent me part of that machine, such as the main control box, saying it was totally compatible. Well, it looks nothing like what is in the CSM84, and the manuals he sent also seem to be for a different vintage machine. The operating manual seems close, the service manual is so different as to be totally useless.

The machine I have is a type PA130620, the operating manual says CSM 66/84/84V III, and also has a line that reads PA 1306/40/50/60/61. So, I'm guessing this manual applies to PA130640 and higher, and my machine is a PA130620.

I have the seller looking for the right manuals, which he is sure he has.

But, in the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how to program it, and I suspect the manuals are only a slight complication.

First, in the Data IN, Component menu, I get a line like this :

NO FDR TYPE SET-NO POS.DATA 1 8 M TAPE 19 AUTO-SET

If I understand this right, SET-NO is the feeder slot, and I'd like to change this to slot 1. But, I can't figure out how to do that. AUTO-SET should make the machine figure out the coordinats of that feeder, without having to teach it.

In the Data-In, PCB, Mount menu, I have no idea how to teach the coords. I can see the X,Y coords in the lower left of the screen, but it always puts 0,0 in the coords for that part. There must be a way it can grab the coords from the current location and put it in for the part's coords.

I can't figure out how to plug the air-driven feeder air lines into the air manifold. There are little metal fittings that look like tiny air chuck fittings, but they won't plug into the ports on the manifold. I've tried everything I could think of, pulling and pushing on the black plastic ring on the manifold ports, etc. I don't want to break anything.

I'd greatly appreciate if anyone can help me with these things. We can continue this offline, unless it would be helpful to others to archive this.

Thanks,

Jon

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#48718

need help with Philips CSM84 | 28 March, 2007

I'm presuming it's basically the same as a Yamaha Hyper Series YM84. You cannot edit data without the hand held YPU or programming unit that plugs into the front of the machine. Go to Data In > Component.

Press edit on the desired feeder #, let's say 1. The left and right arrow keys will toggle the feeder type eg 8mm, 12mm etc. Press enter The cursor will now shift to the Set No field. Enter the Set No using the numerals on the keypad. To avoid confusion always use the the same Set No as the feeder # ie Fdr#1 = Set No 1 Press enter The curor will now move to Pos Data The left and right arrow keys will toggle the Pos Data between Auto Set and Teaching. Auto Set position is derived from User.MCH file. Data In > System > Parameter > Position > Front Feeder Datum > Datum XY. Everytime you reset the machine and initialise Running, the machine will calculate the position of each feeder according to the master XY data. If you don't load a Pcb file and go the the Running menu and press Run - then the data will not be calculated. It will remain at 0,0. Press Run, let the machine initialise then press Reset x 2. Go back to your Component data and you will find you now have co-ordinates. If you have the Pos Data on Teaching - then you have to teach the data by using the YPU axis keys and the selected unit eg Beam, Head 1, Camera. If you create a Component file on line from scratch make sure you go into each Fdr # and set a vacuum level (mdl). I'll send you an explanation of the format of the files that should help you. Why don't you just come to Australia for a week? That would be simpler. We'll go to my favoutite table at Doyle's

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#48720

need help with Philips CSM84 | 28 March, 2007

If I couldn't afford to go to Boston to get some training from the seller, I certainly can't afford a week in Australia!

But, thanks for the offer. I do have the HHK (hand held keypad, that's what Philips calls it.)

And, after tinkering with various mode settings, I can now get the feeder numbers set in. And, now it is going to the first feeder and picking up the part! This is major progress!

The only remaining problem I have is it is placing the part in the wrong place. I am not using any fiducials. I tried to use a couple through holes as fiducials, but it wans't able to locate on that. I think I can work for now without fiducials. So, I am trying to teach with the camera, but it looks like it is applying an offset as if I was teaching off the beam sensor. So, is there some selection when teaching so it will use the offset from the teach camera? I looked in the offset data, and it shows beam sensor at (0,0) and the offsets on the heads look about right from there. There is no entry for the teach camera. I suppose I could try to teach off the beam sensor, but the visibility in there is awful.

One other thing I can't figure out is that the machine is moving at about 1 cm/second, if that, when in auto. I have the speed set for 100%, and the speed settings work when in manual or data in mode (2%, 20% 100%). Any idea why it is moving so incredibly slowly?

Thanks so much for the help! I'm slowly figuring thing out, partly by re-reading the manual over and over, and partly by trying things on it until something happens.

Jon

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Brian

#48723

need help with Philips CSM84 | 29 March, 2007

I actually wrote a program that looked just like the CSM66/84 system. I wrote it so we could train our staff offline without having to interrupt production.

It did everything just like the real program (including the initial RAM load.) You would use the same keys as the keypad and it worked extremely well.

It's a DOS program and was programmed to look identically to the ROM program.

I don't know if anyone is interested in this program, but if so, I would have to dig it up again.

BS

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#48767

need help with Philips CSM84 | 29 March, 2007

Presuming you have a teach camera, if not, the same applies to the beam sensor 1 Return to origin.

2 Clamp pcb in position.

3 Data In > PCB > Origin > Origin 0

4 Teach the corner of the pcb at the mechanical stop. This data is from the machine origin. For a unit with a teach camera it will probably be around -25x, 95y. For a beam sensor around 70x, 28y. This is for a right to left conveyor! Not sure on left to right. Make sure you are teaching with the unit that the machine defaults to or asks for. At the bottom of the screen it should say what this teach unit is. This data is how far the teach unit has to move from machine absolute zero to where you want your datum point for the pcb to be. I like the lower left hand corner so the data is always positive. However, if your machine runs left to right you may want to teach the lower right hand corner at the m-stop. This way your X data will always be negative. If you don't use the m-stop position as your datum point, then, depending on the length of your pcb, your Origin 0 data will be different from pcb to pcb. If you never move the m-stop physically then it will always be the same. (Good idea).

5 Origin 1 should now be taught at the same point and should come up as 0x, 0y. You will notice that when you toggle from Origin 0 to Origin 1 the live data will change co-ordinates. This is because Origin 0 is from machine origin and Origin 1 is from Origin 0. Capisci?

6 Origin 2,3 4 etc are the distances to multiple boards on a panel from the Origin 1 panel.

7 Keep the board clamped and go and teach your mount data. Don't unclamp the board until you have finished the whole shebang.

This is a mug's way of doing it - you should be working from cad. Send me your email address and I'll send you some nice little utilities that could help you on your way.

Run Mode 1 = Auto Run Mode 2 = Normal Speed = 100% Should run OK

Oh, by the way, before you play, back up USER.MCH from the floppy to a couple of safe places. Send me this file

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#48797

need help with Philips CSM84 | 31 March, 2007

I have a left to right conveyor, so the X offset is larger, but that is not major.

You say "Make sure you are teaching with the unit that the machine defaults to or asks for." This is the beam sensor, and I have found no way to change this, either fiddling with the machine or reading the manual. It appears that the software absolutelt has no knowledge of the teach camera unless you have the vision system.

You said "You will notice that when you toggle from Origin 0 to Origin 1". I can do this in the origin page, but it doesn't affect coordinates when I go to the PCB page. I understand the different origin systems, I just can't figure out how to change them when teaching part locations on the PCB.

What I have been doing, and it works but is DAMN cumbersome, is to enter origin 1 as (0,0) and use the teach camera, with crosshairs marked on the screen. When done, I manually edit a "magic number" offset in origin 1 that is actually the distance between the teach camera and the beam sensor. I have two PTH I have made as fiducials, the beam sensor picks these up and then the board comes out just great! I suppose I could just live with doing it this way, but it seems like Philips/Yamaha MUST have intended it to be used in a simpler way!

My email is elson@pico-systems.com, I'd like to take a look at your utilities. I do NOT have a floppy on that machine. There are some empty 50 and 40 pin connectors on the CPU board, but I haven't been able to verify if there is a connector where I can plug in a floppy. Does an add-on board need to be plugged in, or just a 3.5" floppy drive? This is a Type PA130620 with the CAME robot control box from 1992.

Thanks much for your help!

Jon

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#50820

need help with Philips CSM84 | 25 June, 2007

I would be interested in that program. If you could post it to a website or directly to my email if it isn't > 1M.

Andrew

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#50838

need help with Philips CSM84 | 25 June, 2007

Well, what I have takes data directly from the Protel 99SE placement file, so in the present form it is a bit specific. This file is simple ASCII text, but the layout of columns will be different on other CAD systems. What I have has a number of shortcomings, like I have to edit all spaces out of the part ID field before feeding it to my program, or the columns get out of sync. I will post this on my web site in source form, as almost everyone will need to make changes for their system. I'll post another message here when it is available.

Jon

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