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soldering robot

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Hello, I am trying to find out your opinion about using ... - Mar 28, 2007 by

I smell a salesman. ... - Apr 11, 2007 by

Mark

#48690

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Hello,

I am trying to find out your opinion about using soldering bench top soldering robot to solder THT connectors (diffrent). What is your experinces and what is limitation for this system. We can't use wave soldering machine due to the complexity of board and density. So far we are manuall soldering but quantity increase and we need to increase productivity. Production lead free.

What is your any idea apart from wave, selective soldering system?. We also want to use intrusive reflow oven as a one alternative. Regards Mark

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#48691

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

I have seen point-to-point soldering iron tip robots in action at a number of factories. The problem is repeatability at delivering good solder joints. Consider a small selective solder machine, the nozzle type:

www.ace-protech.com www.air-vac-eng.com www.novastarinc.com www.speedlinetech.com/electrovert/soldapak.aspx

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Rob

#48693

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Not a fan of bench top, as you have to load the component and the board into a fixture, then unload afterwards.

We trialled with 3 linked ones for some complex boards which worked well, however it was not cheap, and not that fast.

I'd look at selective if I were you.

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#48695

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Solder iron robots tend to miss solder joints from time to time. The wire feeder systems are the key to these machines. Most use the edge of the board for alignment is another reason they miss. If you have SMD close to the thru-hole, the robot may have a tuff time getting there without hitting the SMD.

The units Pete C (wonder if he knows Pete F?) suggested are better and faster. Top side wetting is thing to watch out with these machines. Depending on your board and part(s), you may have to preheat to get good top side wetting. Fluxing is another issue. Applying by hand is sloppy and may not be accurate. Cutting out a sponge the same size as your connector will help in applying flux. Doesn't look like rocket science but it is cleaner than a spray bottle.

Intursive reflow is OK if you don't mind minimal solder joints with voids. Not to mention the little mess you'll get at the station where the connector gets inserted. You may also have to redesign the board with larger holes so you can get more solder paste to stay in the hole - depends on interface.

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Mark

#48697

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Hello,

Thank you for informations. What about no contact laser robot system is it worth to investigate these solutions?

Regards

Mark

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Rob

#48698

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Hi Mark,

When we last checked out the laser systems you had to either use a solder preform or apply solder paste to the area, which meant either dispensing or some clever printing.

Cheers,

Rob.

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#48702

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Rob is right, you do need to dispense paste or pre-forms when using a laser. Although the Panasonic Soft Beam has a wire despenser. I've seen laser soldering and it does work on smaller stuff. Doesn't work well on connectors even after preheating. Laser will also somke your board if the focus isn't right on the solder joint, so alignment is very important. The same is ture with the Soft Beam. But, the Soft Beam can do larger components versus a laser. I have also seen the laser reflect off the liquid solder and burn the board. But this was due to a pretty large solder joint that would take a little longer than normal to solder than the guys who made the laser were used too.

I didn't buy either machine and ended up with a selective solder machine for our application.

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#48712

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

Real Chunks:

I heard that Pete C=(5/9)*(Pete F-32)

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#48714

soldering robot | 28 March, 2007

And this relates to robots soldering? You need to remove yourself sirl.

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bart.lozie@page.be

#48770

soldering robot | 30 March, 2007

> And this relates to robots soldering? You need > to remove yourself sirl.

Hello,

we do have some experience with a solder-iron robot. Tried several types and brands. Now we have 2 very good robots, works perfect, the type of robot and solderwire is very inportant to get a good result, even the board and component support is a critical element. Laser soldering isn't,(my opinion)a good solution, because to form a good solderjoint, you need time, 2 up to 3sec(SAC). laser soldering heats up to fast i think.

regards Bart

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egrice

#48972

soldering robot | 11 April, 2007

Robot soldering has never really worked well and if you are looking for any volume or repeatability, you may be disappointed! Even though you are using a robot, you are still soldering with an iron and wire solder. This process cant guaranty the best intermetallic connections expecially when soldering boards with a high thermal mass.

Selective soldering is best and has a wide range of products out there from bench top selective ( ACE, Pillarhouse, Novastar, ect... ) but these systems are also limited and not accurate or repeatable at all. Additionally, if you are looking at doing lead free on these machines, you will have trouble.

The higher end machines deliver high quality solder joints with a very repeatable and stable process. You should look at ERSA Selective. They are the leaders and have all ranges from High end down to low end solutions. http://www.ersa.com

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aw c'mon

#48973

soldering robot | 11 April, 2007

I smell a salesman.

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stevebot

#48974

soldering robot | 11 April, 2007

Robot soldering has its limitations, but stevebot soldering is where it's at.

Check out my website: http://www.stevebot.com

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#48975

soldering robot | 11 April, 2007

I think we need more input from Dr. Shocker PhD.

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#48976

soldering robot | 11 April, 2007

Yes, someone's been very busy today searching for the free advertising forum.

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flipit

#49002

soldering robot | 12 April, 2007

If you want an inexpensive, good, somewhat dedicated, solution, then I would use a desktop wave pot like Wenesco or better yet Air Vac. The PCBRM10 or PCBRM12 from Air Vac may still be available. Can find on Ebay also. They have a quick change, product dedicated, nozzle. Basically you are selectively soldering using a dedicated flow well.

For selective soldering, I like Pillarhouse Orissa and Ace KISS series. Don't worry, Ace Frehley of KISS is not CEO of this company.

Look at Beamworks Spark 100 if you want laser soldering. The Panasonic is good also.

I never had good luck with robotic soldering. There were always some open joints.

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#49024

soldering robot | 13 April, 2007

Hello,

we are a subcontractor firm, because we get all kind of designs, most of the times, our selective soldering machine, had its limitations, a lot of designers don't think about selective soldering design rules,

Yes, selective soldering is faster. But Robot iron soldering, No linitations, If you can solder it manually, you can solder it better with the robot,

now we still use our selective soldering machine, but less, we bought 1 robot, and after 1 month we bought a secound one, we were so happy about the results,

we did have to finetune a lot, the wire is very delicate and de boardsupport. this is difficult, once you know how to do it, very good technologie. (if you have the right robot)

bart

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Mark

#49027

soldering robot | 13 April, 2007

Hello,

what robot did you buy?

regards

Mark

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#49028

soldering robot | 13 April, 2007

We bought a Apollo Seiko robot. this, from several test, was way out the best for our production.

we use Ichikawa leadfree solderwire, this was the best result with this robot regards bart

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#49029

soldering robot | 13 April, 2007

FYI: There are laser selective solder machines that use standard solder wire, such as:

http://www.seicatestsolutions.com/pages/161/FIREFLY.php

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stockley

#49032

soldering robot | 13 April, 2007

Lozie We built our own soldering robot using pace soldering irons but we have considered a Apollo Seiko bot for a different facility. I'm curious to know what kind of life you get out of those Apollo Seiko irons with lead-free solder. How many solder joints before you have to change irons?

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#49046

soldering robot | 14 April, 2007

Laser soldering suppliers are: * Seica [low cost firefly A-30]; 45 Osgood St 1st Flr, Methuen, MA 01844; 978-683-8356 F8357 seicatestsolutions.com/pages/24/A30-Firefly-Solder-Station.php; Dave Sigillo [GM] sigillo@seicausa.com

* Leister Process Technologies; Riedstrasse Sarnen LCRN, 6060 Switzerland; 011-41-416627467 F 011-41-416627480 leister.com/english/leister_english.html * MTA Automation AG; P.O. 232 CH-2555 Br�gg/Biel, Switzerland; ++41 32 374 44 00 F ++41 32 373 62 85 mta.ch/e/index.htm * RPS - Robotic Process Systems; 23301 E. Mission Ave. Liberty Lake, WA 99019; 509-891-1680 F1681 rpsautomation.com * SEHO Seitz & Hohnerlein GmbH; Frankenstra�e 7 Kreuzwertheim, D-97892 Germany; +49 - 93 42 / 8 89 - 0 F +49 - 93 42 / 8 89 - 2 00 seho.de/Default_high.htm * BeamWorks; 15375 SW Beaverton Creek Ct, Beaverton, OR 97006; 503-646-3224 F1654 beamworks.com [Spark 100 from BeamWorks for through hole and the Spark 400 for SMT] * Cencorp [PMJ Automec]; 410 S Sunset St, Suite D, Longmont, CO 80501; 303-702-0081 F1270 cencorp.com/cencorp/oddform_assembly

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#57268

soldering robot | 13 November, 2008

Hi Lozie,

Picked up your thread about Apollo Seiko robot. We have a bespoke system using the Luna L model (point soldering). Who is the expert at apollo for setting up parameters etc., We are having trouble soldering links (smt pads).

Regards

Dave

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#57283

soldering robot | 14 November, 2008

I do have exp in setting up the machine, if you explaine me the probleme, maybe i can help you out. (pictures?)

regards Bart

bart.lozie@page.be

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#57304

soldering robot | 17 November, 2008

Bart,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I will put together some photos and e-mail you.

Regards

Dave

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#57305

soldering robot | 17 November, 2008

Stockley, Where are you now? We are still using the robot that you created. we had to modify the programming (once we figured it out) but it is still working fine. Hope all is going well for you. Thanks John

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