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Pick & place

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Dear forum We are in the market for a new /used machine p... - Mar 24, 2007 by jmabie  

#48618

Pick & place | 24 March, 2007

Dear forum

We are in the market for a new /used machine pick place machine with 15 mil accuracy. We have been using a quad 4C for 7 years and it seems like each week we put more money into repairs. I have looking into several machines but it seem like each person I talk to says something diffrent. Most are brokers and just want to unload there inventory. Can anyone suggest a good reliable machine with support and a company that will support there customers after the sale ?

Jerry (407) 862-3363

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#48619

Pick & place | 24 March, 2007

Hi,

There is lots of threads on this, so I would search these, and then do some reading. Then once you have some brands in mind, call the suppliers of this equipment and get some demos to learn about how each machine works. There is lots of differences between how they operate, so it's worth getting the "full demo"

Then you will have a lot more data to come back to the forum and ask more specific questions based on what you have seen.

This is the process I used when I started, and I would recommend going to an SMT trade show asap! Where you can see everything at one place.

Regards,

Grant

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#48621

Pick & place | 24 March, 2007

Thanks for the quick reply, What machine did you get ? We just had the AMCON show in Orlando but I just moved into a 4K sq foot facility and was unable to attend. Up to know all I place is 1206 parts so I dont have the exsprience to know what to ask for. I will search the threads....

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#48622

Pick & place | 24 March, 2007

I am sure there are many levels of machines from startup to high production. There are two machines we have been looking at from Mancorp MC383VIV. I have not done business with them but there sales team make an effort to call one a month asking if we have made a decision. Would you consider this a startup, medium or high volume machine ? They claim 15 mil capacity.

Jerry

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pickNplace

#48624

Pick & place | 25 March, 2007

Obtain references if your going to buy anything. Contacting many users will help to weed out the good and the bad. Throughput and features will determine if the machines are in your budget. Another source would be Automated Production SYstems, they manufacture here in the USA.

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#48637

Pick & place | 26 March, 2007

Jerry,

Mancorp does not make machines. They import machines and put their label on them. I would not buy a machine that's marketed this way.

Jerry

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#48650

Pick & place | 26 March, 2007

Hi,

I don't know anyone who uses Mancorp, and apart from this forum have never heard of them.

I guess the big problem I faced when getting into SMT is trying to find a machine that could do what we wanted at a good cost.

I originally purchased MYDATA, as this machine could place fine pitch parts, and be upgraded with a HYDRA head for faster placement of passive components. It got us started, and kind of worked to a point. However in reality as our volumes increased and our components got to 0402 the MYDATA was not accurate enough, and it was also not fast enough.

So we went for Fuji XP machines, which have been great. However the down side of this is the cost is very high, because to get the extra speed you need to place passive components with a separate machine to the IC's and larger BGA components. Basically one machine is for fine pitch placement, and the other is a chip shooter. That works faster, but because your running two machines it costs a lot more. The good thing is you can get more speed by adding more chip shooters in series.

I know a Fuji XP-143 chip shooter can actually take trays of components, but I think it's still quite limited if your trying to use it to place all types of components.

It really depends on where your at with your factory. If your starting out you could do ok with a second MY series MYDATA and you might be able to get that cheap, and move forward. Others on the forums can also suggest other popular brands of machine, and it might be worth considering second hand. However don't get anything too old, as your going to have to deal with a lot of maintenance issues.

That's my experiences, and I hope this helps. Good luck.

Grant

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coop

#48654

Pick & place | 26 March, 2007

I use a Philips topaz, Have been running them for 6 1/2 years and have had great luck with them and assembleon is about as good as it gets when it comes to tech support. I am not a vendor just a machine operator. I am familiar with the quad 4c and this is way nicer than the 1 part at a time stuff. and the placements are great as well. from 0402's to 976 ball BGA's it'll do it. 11,000cph

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#48665

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

If by 15 mil accuracy you're looking to place 15 or 16 mil pitch, yeah, you're asking a lot of a IVc. Ours do OK for 20 mil pitch but I wouldn't want my living to depend on placing high volume ultra fine pitch with it. They're not designed for that.

As far as repair costs, parts aren't cheap but we rarely have problems with them...what's failing on yours?

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jerry

#48666

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

We lost the video processor module for the downward looking camera. twice in 6 months... We dont get 15 mil with quad but are looking for a machine that will.

Jerry

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#48668

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

High mix low volume I would say Mydata would be a good choice, If set up time isn't a big factor I would choose Siemens F4 for reliably, serviceability and OEM support.

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jerry

#48673

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

Right now there is no setup time. We have 5 parts all 1206 that are used in 27 diffrent boards. Our setup time is jst to load new file.

Jerry

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#48674

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

We have a dead one too. :( They're not cheap. Do you know what's taking them out? I suspect a shorted cable is what took ours out.

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#48683

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

We are a high mix - low/medium volume company running an older MyData upgraded TP9 machine. It does a good job placing 20 mil pitch and 0402 components. We have not tried to place 15 mil pitch. Breakdowns/repairs have been relatively low considering the age of the machine. Customer service has been VERY good.

I really like MyData but I have to admit I have not used any other brand of pick-n-place machines.

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#48686

Pick & place | 27 March, 2007

I have only used the Quad 4C, We bought it used and ran good right out of the box without the need for repairs. It uses quadaline and does not work very well on IC's. We place 30K 1206 parts a week with a 4 % dump to bin. I have to tolerance set to 30% and but still get dumped parts. We are looking for used machines anyone deal with QMSI in CA ? Anyone have thoughts on PPM new XP PRo conversion for the 4C ?

Jerry

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#48717

Pick & place | 28 March, 2007

Quadalign is very similar to the Samsung. I would think that 4% dump on 1206 or even IC is way over the top. If you are certain that your component data is correct; I suspect that your z-axis centring height may be out of whack and that you are either getting a bit of nozzle in the aligner or that you are shooting under the component and getting nothing. Causes are Head z axis offset incorrect, Aligner calibration incorrect, Nozzle length incorrect or not seated properly.(maybe after nozzle change) Check your dump data. Is one head worse, one component worse etc.

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#48801

Pick & place | 1 April, 2007

Thanks for the tip. By Z was to high during alignment. Dropped to 10 on a 20 mill part.

Thanks.

Jerry

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