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The story so far!

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Hi All, I am doing a presentation on Life after RoHS shor... - Dec 04, 2006 by

Hi Tg FR4, Nelco 4K ... - Dec 07, 2006 by

thanks swag.. ... - Jan 09, 2007 by

aj

#45911

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Hi All,

I am doing a presentation on Life after RoHS shortly and would appreciate some different perspectives on how it all went .

Any replies appreciated.

aj...

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#45912

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

AJ, you will find useful info at this link http://www.rohsusa.com

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#45914

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Patrick,

Have you seen Al Gore's documentary on Global Warming, "The Inconvenient Truth?" It was okay, but I didn't like how Gore got political in a few scenes by slamming the current administration's environmental policies (or lack thereof...c'mon..how can you expect an Oil Guy like Dubya to be an environmentalist), and then showing footage of what happened in Florida in 2000. The previews for this movie said that it wasn't about politics, but science..yeah right...

Now..after watching this I can see how running hotter oven profiles does no good for global warming. This RoHS thing is just another contributor of melting another glacier in Greenland.

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aj

#45918

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

thanks for that Patrick,

I would really like to hear from other Engineers who had to introduce Leadfree to the workplace and what issues if any have surfaced since the change.

aj...

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Rob

#45920

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Hi AJ,

Issues we have seen:

Test houses not explaining results adequately/customers with their own XRF equipment not sure what they are looking for, resulting in lots of goods in rejections/requests to return stock mostly centered around:

1) Lead in the glaze of chip resistors (exempt) 2) Identifying Bromide as a banned substance when it's actually PBB's & PBDE's, but they can't easily test for those. 3) Manufacturers changing part numbers then changing them back again, thus screwing up the provinance of anything in the supply chain. 4) Manufacturers not releasing the recommended reflow curve or PBTs without a fight. 5) Lack of understanding from the official bodies implementing and policing this in the UK. 6) Complete mess made of exemptions & communicated poorly so no-one knows for sure if they are. 7) Manufacturers declaring that their parts are either compliant or exempt, but actually neither. 8) Components adjacent to the wave melting die to increased temperature & use of lower temp plastics.

That enough to get started with?

Cheers,

Rob.

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#45921

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Life after RoHS is a nightmare Delamination is the No. 1 issue in mixed technology. No. 2 is voids due to the inferior wetting characteristics of lead-free alloys compared to leaded alloys. No. 3 is copper dissolution.

The full effect of RoHS will only be felt in 3 to 5 years when field reliability data will become available.

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#45930

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Hi Samir,

Haven�t seen his presentation on global warming, but heard of it. Politicians are like diapers and need to be changed often for the same reasons. And being on that subject I read an article concluding that human farting produces worse gases contributing to global warming then the oxides of carbon.

Can�t find it right now but I will post a link when I find it.

Cheers Patrick

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SWAG

#45939

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

Some production problems we've faced: 1) Delamination; 2) Reflow fixture distortion; 3) Obsolete parts; 4) Failure of blower motor bearings in older reflow ovens; 5) Poor toe fillets with miniSOTs on thicker PCB's; 6) Lack of updated component data sheets; 7) Controlling step/repeat designs for PCB conversion; 8) Learning curve with SMT rework; and 9) HOT production area when all ovens are running ROHS!

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KEN

#45965

The story so far! | 4 December, 2006

1. Customers want simultainous manufacturing of PB and PB free assemblies but don't want to pay for separate toolng.

2. Customers wants PB free boards and doesn't understand lead parts can not go in the wave. Then gripe about missed shipping dates and increased costs because of hand soldering requirements of lead parts used in PB free process.

3. Labeling: Customer demands PB free labeling, but spec's some parts in tin-lead. This confuses the hell out ot the floor. Especially in rework and returns. Which parts have lead?

4. Who the hell keeps putting tin-lead bars in my lead free wave? "Well, the solder bars looked the same"?

5. Switched to monthly pot monitoring on all lead free processes to monitor lead and copper content. I have single handidly made our LAB rich beyond the dreams of King Solomons Mines.

6. Part manufactureres not changing part numbers but indicating lead free compliance "from this date code forward". But the supply chains don't know what they have, send mixed inventory (based on date codes)and generally leave it to you to figure it out.

7. Tin wiskers on parts? You bet. (shakes head)

8. Customer has no idea how to scrub a BOM and won't pay for you to do it. You end up doing it anyways because they are incompetent and will contaminte your solder pot anyways.

9. Lead free compliant does NOT mean PB free process compliant. This is defined as must survive a minimum of 260C!

10. On site monitoring from industry leading customer. (They) Sample boards from process to determine your compliance as a tier 1 supplier. lab analysis indicates lead above 1000 PPM. They immeditly indicate your process as the problem. You jump through hoops to the point of exhaustion. Millions of dollars are on the line. Then the customer calls and indicate the lead was actually found in a connector body they specified. Oops. Sorry mr. contract manufacturer.

I could go on and on....

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#45980

The story so far! | 5 December, 2006

Here�s a new round of exemption requests http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/rohs_6_consult.htm

Look at No. 15

15. All electronics assemblies using lead in solder

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#46031

The story so far! | 6 December, 2006

Patrick,

Well 6-Billion farters don't help the global warming problem either. And I can bet that all 6-billion of us who inhabit the earth fart AT LEAST once a week. :)

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Cmiller

#46077

The story so far! | 7 December, 2006

Implemented 6 months ago and have noticed no difference in frequency of farting.

Sorry, could not resist. Have seen delamination problem with IS-410 laminate. What laminate is everyone else using?

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KEN

#46084

The story so far! | 7 December, 2006

Hi Tg FR4, Nelco 4K

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SWAG

#46546

The story so far! | 8 January, 2007

I think this is the thread you are looking for AJ.

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aj

#46555

The story so far! | 9 January, 2007

thanks swag..

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Rob

#46558

The story so far! | 9 January, 2007

Can I also add Manufacturers replacing copper with steel in component leads? Steel has lead in it to make it more ductile, which, although exempt up to a certain point in steel, it still causes XRF failures.

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patrickbruneel

#46807

The story so far! | 18 January, 2007

Hi Samir,

I did a lot of thinking about global warming the last 3 weeks and more weeks to come. I live in Texas and temperatures this time of the year normally are between 50 and 60F, the last 3 weeks we have been in a deep freeze with snow, sleet and ice no improvement in the forecast. It�s getting to the point that we ran out of de-icing chemicals completely and another ice storm is in the forecast for the coming weekend so the whole state could be immobilized.

Did Al Gore say in his presentation when that global warming would kick-in? We need it badly here.

Patrick

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#46812

The story so far! | 18 January, 2007

Hi Patrick,

I agree, there've been many anomolies this Winter. I've spent the last 6 months at my company's Chicago branch, and temperatures throughout December were very comparable to the desert heat of Riyadh!

I hate Al Gore, the guy's a total tool, but some of the data he presented did raise an eyebrow or two. The CO2 emissions are out of control - does this correlate to global warming?? Don't know yet. There's no hard scientific evidence. Have we had many weather anolomolies within the last decade that correlated to CO2 emissions?? I don't know that either! Are gasoline powered cars, and fossil fuels the main contributor of CO2 emissions, or is it the 6-billion farters we have on the planet? :-)

Unfortunately, Gore is the wrong guy to be preaching about the environment. He obviously has his own political agenda, and is using his movie, which he made $15m from, as a political stepping stone to "get him back in the game, and I'm sure to fund his 2008 campaign.

I do believe, though, that part of global warming is when hot places that're supposed to say hot, actually get cold. I don't remember why, though, you'll have to rent Gore's movie. :-) Patrick, this whole time I thought you were based out of Great Britain!

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#46848

The story so far! | 19 January, 2007

Ken,

I like to take the opportunity with this thread to get something of my chest. I like the 2007 Ken a whole lot better then the 2004 Ken (at least if it�s the same Ken).

Remember this thread? http://www.smtnet.com/forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=7629&

Patrick

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wagoner

#46988

The story so far! | 25 January, 2007

We are an OEM and we were about 75% converted to lead free. Very few of our customers showed any interest in ROHS compliant products and none of our competitors were doing it either. We had a few field failures that may have been related to the higher temperature lead free reflow profile, so we switched back. Generally, however, the switch to lead free went much better than expected and we had very few problems.

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greg york

#47008

The story so far! | 25 January, 2007

Common Sense is prevailing thankfully and yes it does work and yes it is quite good. Some even say better than the leaded process. Cheers Greg

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Rob

#47016

The story so far! | 26 January, 2007

Greg,

What did you have to go and say that for?

Now you're going to really upset Patrick & ruin his weekend!

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aj

#47022

The story so far! | 26 January, 2007

I would have to agree with you Greg,

I suppose Longterm will tell.

aj...

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#47024

The story so far! | 26 January, 2007

Lol Rob

Solder manufactures are happy campers now

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mn

#47031

The story so far! | 26 January, 2007

the joke is on you, what you are experiencing is indeed global warming.

This message was posted Add this forum to your site! Click to learn more. the Electronics Forum @

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#48052

The story so far! | 28 February, 2007

Hey Patrick, have you heard the latest on Al Gore?

How typical and this doesn't include all the times Gore flies on private jets adding even more CO2 to the atmosphere. Can anyone say HYPOCRITE.

"Al Gore�s Personal Energy Use Is His Own "Inconvenient Truth" Gore�s home uses more than 20 times the national average

Last night, Al Gore�s global-warming documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, collected an Oscar for best documentary feature, but the Tennessee Center for Policy Research has found that Gore deserves a gold statue for hypocrisy.

Gore�s mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES).

In his documentary, the former Vice President calls on Americans to conserve energy by reducing electricity consumption at home.

The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh�more than 20 times the national average.

Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWh�guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gore�s average monthly electric bill topped $1,359.

Since the release of An Inconvenient Truth, Gore�s energy consumption has increased from an average of 16,200 kWh per month in 2005, to 18,400 kWh per month in 2006.

Gore�s extravagant energy use does not stop at his electric bill. Natural gas bills for Gore�s mansion and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year.

�As the spokesman of choice for the global warming movement, Al Gore has to be willing to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, when it comes to home energy use,� said Tennessee Center for Policy Research President Drew Johnson.

In total, Gore paid nearly $30,000 in combined electricity and natural gas bills for his Nashville estate in 2006."

http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367

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