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Help or nothing!?

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Hello all, I've read a lot of topics on the forum. 80% or... - Jun 22, 2006 by Evtimov  

#42367

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Hello all,

I've read a lot of topics on the forum. 80% or more people don't get answers. All the time you can read massages like:

"call the manifacturer" - what does that mean? I ask you. If I want to call to manifacturer I will do it. That is not help. Please don't post that scrap. If you can help do it. If not stay quiet.

"It is a technical forum - not opinion". That is completely wrong. It is an opinion forum. Somebody ask for your opinion. And what you answer? "It is a technical forum - not opinion". This is also an opinion...and nothing technical again. "..it depends on a lot of things. Check in your area...what is the support ....bla ..bla....the things are different in different areas......see who is close to you....call the manifacturer...." Thank you! I can check NOW for the possibilities in my area. Just after you told me.

PLESE DON'T WRITE ALL THIS! The forum is for people who fight with the production prolems everyday. All these people came here for help. They have real problems and need solution.

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Chunks

#42370

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Hi Evtimov,

You need to call your manufacturer! Just joking! Sorry, but it is a "forum", which means you need to pick and choose your information carefully. Some are rookies that may give a simple or silly answer without knowing, some are seasoned veterans that are mad at this forum and try to trick the nieve into going the wrong direction (many have been bitching about this site for over 10 years - yet keep coming back!). Some are just looking to start a fight and work together to "burn" people or make fun of them (Gwad do I know - I have about 4 of em' responding to my messages this way every week).

The bottom line is to try and decipher an answer to your question. This may entail skipping your above mentioned answers as well as the skipping the know-it-all-magazine-desk-jockeys. Of course there are the band of uglies that give you screwy, way out answers or call you names that just ain't worth responding to (unless you're a third grader, then by all means respond!). Once that's done, you have about 10% of the responses that are helpful.

My pet peeve is how one person asks a simple question and how the answers tangent to a solution that is not even related to the original post. Or how the originator never responds to added questions asked by others. But alas, that's just how it is here and has been for years. Remember, a technically sound solder joint that meets all IPC criteria will be judged 10 different ways by 10 different people because of their opinion.

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#42372

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Hello Chunks,

I see you also agree for the 10% useful answers. I had posted about 10 times in this forum for 3 years, but I read the threads often. I post, really when I need help and answer only if I think I can help. Only a few answers were really helpful. And answers like mentioned above makes me angry. If I can find simple solution(check close to me, open google or call manifacturer) I wouldn't make any post to the forum. I look for help from the people who practice every day and know the real problems. I am looking for somebody's experience, for the practical knoledge. People here are all from the industry(or most of them), right? Or I am really confused. May be I have to give up and read useless answers. As you said "But alas, that's just how it is here and has been for years".

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Chunks

#42375

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Yup, I agree with you. Don't let the 90%er win, rise above it. Keep a sense of humor, cause you'll need it. Ya gotta admit, when the Gruesom 4-sum post here, it is kinda funny. But then again, I've been at this for over 20 years, so maybe I can see the poop from fertilizer.

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RDR

#42378

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

So Ev, why did you just respond to a question that you admitted not knowing about? is this not the same?

ie... nozzle set error, you know this could be a software conflict error as well? You answered as if it was an inspection error, when I did not see that as the problem.

I do agree with what you say for the most part, but when someone asks what profile should I use for my paste? what do you say, Just do not answer at all?

Russ

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#42380

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Ha ha! Burn on you Ev! Davef was right, keep women at home!

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#42383

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

FWIW, My own recent posts for "help" on this forum have resulted in very few or no answers...some examples:

http://www.smtnet.com//forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=9824&#Message39400

I had another post on wave solder flux evaluations which nobody replied to either... can't seem to find it in the archives though because it got no responses.

Bottom line... yes, there's lots of rookies on this forum, but i think it's the global trend of outsourcing that's causing this...and there's nothing wrong at all with rookies. I'm glad foreign engineers have a chance to learn electronic manufacturing too. That's why my company in Riyadh recruited me. They know i spent 11 years in America... Many of the veterans who've "been there and done that" have left..hence, once again you get the very rookie questions like.. "My machines broke..what do I do?" ....or.. "I don't know how to profile...what are your setpoints on your ovens."

So, yes, what you do get from the forum, it's up to you to use your best judgement and deductive reasoning ability that you might've acquired from Engineering school...or as Chunks states, read between the lines of those who HAVE actually done something versus the magazine-reading wannabe.

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#42384

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

Hi,

One of the advantages of a forum that's public, is it's a mix of people, so your always going to get chaos in the replies. I think what's important is people here that have experience try and do what they can to help with good replies.

Also, some people know more about one topic than another. For example I know a bit about MYDATA and FUJI XP machines, and SMT, but am no real expert on wave. So it's really good how I can help some people, but also how others can help me too.

But I agree that blowing off posts as "it's been covered before" or "call the manufacturer" are not much use. I think even when a repeat topic comes up it's a good opportunity to have a fresh look at it, and it all helps the archive become richer, so later when you have a problem there are several good threads to search through.

Grant

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#42393

Help or nothing!? | 22 June, 2006

It's a free forum. Consider: * Paying attention to things that make sense to you and meet your needs * Ignoring things that don't

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Ola

#42394

Help or nothing!? | 23 June, 2006

Mr. Evtimov, Keep in mind, that most of us do this in our spare time. I can't really understand why You yell at us, since most of us try to exchange information? Yes there are sometimes crazy answers and sometimes even more crazy questions, but You have to live with that. This is an e-forum and therefore You can't ask that everybody will be perfect? If You feeel that way, then Your are in the wrong place. This is just an e-forum, nothing else. So please Do not try to lecture anybodys opinion or answer. Yes, I do belief that a sufficient question will have all the answers to it. The only problem is; can you formulate such a question?

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Ola

#42395

Help or nothing!? | 23 June, 2006

I might be wrong in the sentence "most of us do this in our spare time", but what i mean is essentially. I am not from an english country and I am not good at the english spelling and grammar. So please have mercy with me. / Ps. It should be something like this: I do belief that a sufficient question will have all the answers into it. The only problem is; can you formulate such a question? Ds.

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#42398

Help or nothing!? | 23 June, 2006

Hi Russ,

I answered with a concrete things. I didn't say "ASK YOUR MANIFACTURER" or "CALL THE TECHNICAL SUPPORT" as the other posts on the same thread. If some of the things I mentioned could help, if the problem is one of them you have the solution. But my post was on the subject. Wrong or right it was something from the real life.

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FD

#42404

Help or nothing!? | 23 June, 2006

To say that we all do this in our spare time should be a correct statement for most, if not all, of us. I certainly don't get paid to surf the 'net and answer questions to problems at companies that I do not work at. But if I have some spare time and there is something I can answer (or give opinion to) I will do it.

There are also times when people buy used-market machines and then don't want to pay the manufacturer for support so they ask questions here. Which is fine. That is one reason this forum exists. But sometimes the problem is so complex in the answer that it would be best to talk with the manufacturer because I certainly don't want to be responsible for giving an answer that can cause damage to your machine if you do not do it right... And there are times when the question is clearly showing that it is a lack of training that is causing the issue, so please talk with the manufacturer and get the training that is required to use the equipment that you purchased.

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Wave Master Larry

#42406

Help or nothing!? | 23 June, 2006

Why are all engineers so whinny?

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#42418

Help or nothing!? | 26 June, 2006

"Why are all engineers so whinny?"

I'm sure that somehow it has something to do with a horse's @$$.

Evtimov, sometimes you get what you pay for. People complain here when no one answers, and some complain about the answers they get. Me, I'm happy this place is here at all and that on the off chance that I'll find something that will help me make a decision once in a while.

Other than that, just read what davef said. It's a forum, not paid technical support.

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#42442

Help or nothing!? | 27 June, 2006

IT's A FREE FORUM!!!!!! KEY WORD FREE!!!!

Filter the crap.....Garner the value.

Regards, Cal

----------------------------------- From Evtimov:

Hello Free all Free,

I've Free read Free a Free lot Free of Free topics Free on Free the Free forum. 80% Free or Free more Free people Free don't Free get Free answers Free . All Free the Free time Free you Free can Free read Free massages Free like:

"call Free the Free manifacturer Free " - what Free does Free that Free mean Free? I Free ask Free you Free. If Free I Free want Free to Free call Free to Free manifacturer Free I Free will Free do Free itFree . That Free is Free not Free help Free. Please Free don't Free post Free that Free scrap Free . If Free you Free can Free help Free do Free it Free. If Free not Free stay Free quiet Free.

"It Free is Free a Free technical Free forum Free - not Free opinionFree ". That Free is Free completely Free wrong Free . It Free is Free an Free opinionFree forum Free. Somebody Free ask Free for Free your Free opinionFree . And Free what Free you Free answer Free? "It Free is Free a Free technical Free forum Free - not Free opinion Free". This Free is Free also Free an Free opinion Free...and Free nothing Free technical Free again Free . "..it Free depends Free on Free a Free lot Free of Free things Free. Check Free in Free your Free area Free...what Free is Free the Free support Free ....bla Free ..bla Free ....the Free things Free are Free different Free in Free different Free areas Free......see Free who Free is Free close Free to Free you Free....call Free the Free manifacturerFree ...." Thank Free you Free! I Free can Free check Free NOW Free for Free the Free possibilities Free in Free my Free area Free. Just Free after Free you Free told Free me Free.

PLESE Free DON'T Free ALL Free THIS Free! The Free forum Free is Free for Free people Free who Free fight Free with Free the Free production Free prolems Free everyday Free. All Free these Free people Free came Free here Free for Free help Free . They Free have Free real Free problems Free and Free need Free solution Free .

For one on one fee related consultants please contact ... http://www.itmconsulting.org/ ; http://www.rayprasad.com/ ; http://www.bobwillis.co.uk/ ; http://www.solderingtech.com/

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FD

#42462

Help or nothing!? | 28 June, 2006

Wow Cal - You truly had some free time to freely inform the free-world that this is a free forum to be used as freely as free-minded people can use free information for free.

I love it!!!!!

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Rob

#42465

Help or nothing!? | 28 June, 2006

I find myself suddenly starting to agree with Larry. Nothing for it but to retire early and start a llama farm.

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#42575

Help or nothing!? | 6 July, 2006

That was funny! Cal please, free your mind of all free things. People here are not idiots.

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#42588

Help or nothing!? | 6 July, 2006

The funny thing about this e-mail trail is that it is one of the longer ones on here ......

It seems the controversial threads last the longest. At least I enjoyed it.

What's my point you might ask ??? Just ignore the threads you don't find interesting.

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