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Need help for setting up an assembly line

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Dear All, We plan to setup an assembly line for our small... - Jun 19, 2006 by

Nathan

#42290

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 19 June, 2006

Dear All,

We plan to setup an assembly line for our small volume production of PCBs (about couple hundred PCBs per week). The board has about 150 components (less than 30 types) and a few BGA and IC (majority is SMT, only few THT connectors). We have searching some information about the equipment such as MyData TP9 or MY9, APSGold, Manncorp, SMT 2350C for P&P and Heller 1088, Bravo 8105 and OmniExcel 7-zones, and Conceptronic HVA-70 for Reflow oven, etc.., but we are not sure whether or not the following proposal is appropriate for our need, especially for the small budget to start with. We would like to ask for advices from your expertise. Any advice or comment is greatly appreciated.

1. Manual solder paste stencil printer (AIC Technology SSP-75A) 2. SMT 2350C Pick & Place 3. 1088 Heller Reflow 4. PCB Wash & Cleaner (Aqueous CL400 or Lancer 1300PCB) 5. Temperature Oven (Blue M or similar)

We also need to be able to handle Pb-free and have capability to support mid-volume once it is ramping up. Do you have any recommendation for Pb-free solder patse?

Another question, is the facility with 200A @ 208V able to operate this assembly line properly? Please help to give us some advices so that we can start on the right track. Any other equipment recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Nathan

P.S. Sorry for the bad English.

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#42307

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

Allow me to make some recommendations. This is my firm's bread and butter, so to speak. Helping startups like yourself achieve their budget objectives, but in the process being innovative and thinking outside of the box. Here are my suggestions----

MyData Placement Equipment: #1 in the placement market for speed and accuracy. My firm, Worldtronics, Inc has deployed numerous MyData lines to the whole gammut of Electronics industries. You are making the right choice with MyData.

Bahodium (TM) Solder: The new alloy that WCS has successfully mined. 100% RoHS compliant and the strongest, most reliable interconnect in the industry.

Furnace Heat Chamber: We employ Advanced Heat Radiation technologies utilizing advanced techniques like pyrolysis and gasification as precursor processes. A great, more cost-effective alternative to this so-called "reflow" process that is conventionally used.

Please contact my firm and we will assist you in achieving your goals of successful and seamless deployment

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two cents

#42308

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

Here we go again........please do your Company and yourself a favor by listening to advice from someone other than the self proclaimed guru. Did'nt Ford think out of the box when the Edsel was designed? Good luck and make sure to check out all the alternatives.

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#42310

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

OK, I'll play...how does one contact your company?

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#42311

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

Nathan,

Please don't listen to the Guru. His experience in this industry is as non-existent as his magic mine. Guru, please go somewhere else. This forum is for technical advice, not sales.

For those of us in reality, it is usually best to stick with what has been proven to work. I don't know much about manual printers, but you can get a refurbed and calibrated MPM AP for around 30-35K. It is fully automatic and capable of high volume. I've always liked Siemens and Fuji, but might be overkill for your process. You can get a refurbed BTU P-70 or P-98 for less than 60K, also good for future expansion and lead-free.

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#42312

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

Yeah, and I would love to see a data sheet on the great Bahodium solder and the "Advanced Heat Radiation and Gasification". I'll stick with my so-called "reflow" process.

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RDR

#42313

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

i have just emailed Mr. guru, the company he reps does not exist in cyberland, but I am sure that they just have another means of communication, i have asked fopr public posting to substantiate these claims, I offered in return that if he comes through I will personally post an applogy and will buy a Mydata. If nothing comes through can we have our SMTnet WEB master put a block on this IP?

Lets see what happens.

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#42314

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 20 June, 2006

Hi,

Yes, forget Guru, he's a "tosser" who talks "bolloks". Did you ever notice the English have fantastic words for putting people down?

Anyway back to the original question.

A manual stencil printer might be ok if your not doing anything too tricky on the technology side. However if your doing some 1 mm BGA's or any lead-less stuff, your going to need something better. However we had a manual stencil printer for about a year and it worked great. It was a US brand that had a bearing guide down the side, and we modified it with a metal blade, as it normally had rubber. It worked well.

A MYDATA would be fine for your needs. It's easy to setup, and cheap. You should be able to find a second hand one. I think a MY series one would be best, so you could add a HYDRA if you need more speed for passive components.

MYDATA's are not accurate regardless of what Guru says, but they are accurate enough, and work well. Plus they are a more professional machine with loads of second hand feeders.

One bit of advice, try and stay away from stick feeders. Go for reels, and try and reel up your components if you can only get them on sticks. Stick feeders on MYDATA's are really bad, and I am not sure but they might be bad on other machines as well. We got rid of them, and it's the best think we did. You can pick up a cheap tape and reel machine. The problem apart from miss feeds, is the sticks just run out too fast, so the machine is always stopping, so really slows down production.

A short 5 zone oven might be good after that. There might be some short ovens around where people have swapped them out for larger ones when they got faster, or if there product was too complex for the oven to handle lead free, so I would look at the second hand market for something inline. There are batch units around, but they are a real problem, or expensive when you consider the cost of a good second hand oven. Check it's clean, so you know your not getting a used up junk oven. If it's clean, it should be ok.

That should do you. Your doing just over the volume for this to be easy with any kind of equipment, so you do need some thinking to get it right. Good luck.

Grant

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#42340

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Earl Moon, how do I contact you? Your e-mail and PCB 007 site are down?

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Rob

#42341

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Hi Grant,

You forgot Charlatan, or my particular favourite: twat.

Tube feeders also encourage operator error, where tubes being changed over all of the time can be put in upside down.

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#42342

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Hi,

Yes, I forgot that, and also sometimes a part of two are also individually upside down, and sometimes the wrong part is put in, because you need to read the part number on the part, as there is rarely a stick label.

Generally sticks are a nightmare!

Grant

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Nathan

#42345

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Dear All, Thank you very much for your advices and comments. I appreciate that.

Does anyone have any idea how much the good working condition second hand MY9 will cost? And how does MY9 compare to SMT 2350C in term of cost and performance?

Regarding to Reflow oven, can 5-zones oven handle lead free provided that its temperature can go up to 350C? (I concern that the length of the oven may not long enough to handle the entire process. I could be wrong. Please advice). Should I need 7- or 8- zones oven instead?

Again, thank you very much for your help. It help us a lot.

Thanks, Nathan

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Chunks

#42350

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Nathan, look into a 7 or 8 zone oven. Depending on your baord size, a 5 zone may get you by. If you do plan to get larger work orders, go big on your oven now. It will pay off in the long run. Plus your window for profiling will be easier.

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RDR

#42351

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

the SMT 350C, doubt if you will find much info on that one. Most likely european with very poor US support if it is the MFGr i am thinking of.

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#42352

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

I don't know about the cost but I would recommend that if you buy a used Mydat, that you buy it from Mydata and not a used equipment dealer.

Mydata very much wants to handle all sales of machines so they can make sure that the machines are still in good condition.

One instructor said he gets students that say they just bought a new such and such machine but meanwhile Mydata hadn't made that model in 10 years. But the student couldn't tell that the machine had been used.

If you do buy it from a third party and later want to upgrade TPSYS then they will charge a large fee because you didn't go through them.

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chrisgriffin

#42354

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

I would go with a 7-zone oven. A 5-zone oven would get you by, but for a little more you could get a 7-zone that will handle a more challenging reflow process as will as more volume.

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#42357

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

"Another question, is the facility with 200A @ 208V able to operate this assembly line properly?" That could be a problem, big ovens pull a lot of juice. Our 7 zone Conceptronic HVN-102 runs on 480 Volts and is on a 160 amp breaker, for example. You should probably budget an electrician coming out to upgrade your power supply if you go with an inline oven.

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RDR

#42360

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

our 5 zone oven uses 220 and pulls 60A for startup. look at the spec sheets for your chosen oven and it will tell you current requirements

Russ

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Nathan

#42361

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 21 June, 2006

Dear All,

Thanks for your help. I'm not clear that when you mention the number of zones of the reflow, says 8-zones, do you refer to the total number of heater zones (both top and bottom) without cooling zone?

Hi Russ, the P&P model I mentioned is Suzuki SMT 2350C.

Thanks for all your help.

Best regards, August

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RDR

#42369

Need help for setting up an assembly line | 22 June, 2006

Okay I was not thinking of the Suzuki, So I would not have any input there.

Zones to me does not include the cooling, I also do not count the top and bottom individually as zones.

So to me an 8 zone oven would have 16 heaters that you could set, 8 on top 8 on bottom. If they were only on top I would still call it an 8 zone.

Russ

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