Used Equipment from China

Dear sir,

This is Danny Hui from VS Solution. May I know whom did you buy from in China?

Regards Danny Hui

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> I got my hands on a used, refurbished machine out > of China, which didn�t look quite as > advertised. Machine plates, logbooks and other > documents are missing. According to the machine > supplier, the plates are swapped from older > machines to trick customs and reduce import > tax. With some missing sensibility in what is > right, it is very likely that the customer can be > cheated as well. This machine was way overpriced > and misrepresented. > > Meanwhile I do know, that > machines usually don�t operate in air conditioned > rooms. As a result the machines can overheat and > fail more often. Filter mats are removed because > they clog and reduce the efficiency of the > cooling fans. > > Machine utilization in China is > about 60 %. Troubleshooting the other 40 % > machine breakdown time is apparently been reduced > by removing safety switches, screws in control > boards, cable covers and cable ties. > > The > machines are quite often used for designated > jobs. As a result the board conveyer�s shafts and > spindles, designed to change its width, were > corroded on both sides of a �fixed?width. The > machine�s nozzle changer was missing. > > The > touch screen monitor was replaced with a standard > monitor and keyboard. > > Stereotype response from > the Chinese dealer: �We don�t need this in > Central China? > > There was no sign of any PM > whatsoever and the only visible refurbishment was > a bad paint job. Linear bearings were not > lubricated and heavily corroded. A thick layer of > dust on electronic boards and inside the machine > indicated that the dirt was vented into the > machine due to the missing filter mats. > > I do > realize that it may be difficult for Chinese > dealers to make a profit after government > officials and unofficial officials are paid off. > Nevertheless, our standards and expectations are > much higher and machines like that are > unacceptable. > > The machines are too delicate to > operate in above mentioned environment. With 90% > board manufacturing in China, there is no > significant other market for the machine > supplier. This also means maybe we should start > re-thinking our perception in quality and > durability. As a machine designer, I recommend > air-less and grease-less machines. If the > machine requires too much explanation or > maintenance to operate properly then it may be > too complicated.

Dear sir,

This is Danny Hui from VS Solution. May I know whom did you buy from in China?

Regards Danny Hui

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Any and all equipment i have ever seen (or worked on) oversea's...and that includes most 3rd world countries including china..... they dont know what preventive maintenence is (or every day maintenence).......So anyone buying equipment from oversea's is taking a rather LARGE risk.

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Stefan, Was this machine a Fuji by chance ? Did you buy this machine ? If so why would you or anyone buy a machine sight unseen that is "way overpriced" Just curious..

I have been told by representatives of major SMT machine manufacturers to BEWARE of machines that have been shipped from overseas for the exact reasons you spoke of.

We buy A LOT of used equipment, and it is my experience that you need to follow these guidelines:

1. Never EVER buy a machine sight unseen.

2. Know the person you are buying from.

3. Make sure that there are clear documented agreements as to how the machine is going to be warrantied.(If at all)

4. Set it up so that the full amount of the money is not paid until your inspection when it arrives.

As for the condition of the machine you spoke about, there are three MAJOR things that will ruin a machine:

1. Dirty operating conditions. 2. Machines not being lubricated and wiped down periodically. 3. Clogged cooling fans

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Stefan

Who are the reputable suppliers of "air-less and grease-less machines"?

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Is IBE where you work Sr. Tech???

I thought this man said he trusted the other seller/buyer from oversea because he has been sold good and running condition equipment to that same dealer. However, what he got was a scrap machine (sound like). And is someone is going to loose business soon by... selling bad stuff.

And, I thought a while back there was a reminder note in this web which saysssssss..... Do not deal with the people you don't know ..... $$$ will be gooo goooo gooone.

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I am Jack Liu, I must clarify all of these in the business with Stefan, and let all of the dealers know which kind of person the Stefan is!

For this used machine sales, we have invoice with Stefan and remark as follows(He had confirmed the invoice): 1, Used machine have no warranty. 2, NO any item say if customer does not satisfied with this machine, I will return any money to him.

I had invited Stefan and his partner come to China to inspect the machine for several times, but they did not come.

In my SMT plant in China, this used machine is working well and in our production correctly, so I have confidence o invite Stefan come to inspect this equipment, I did not cheat anybody at all in this business.

The nozzle changer is not standard configuration for this used machine, it is just an option. This machine just have IC head nozzle Changer. Stefan said that this equipment was dirty, maybe the clear standard is different between us, anyway, it is just a used machine in 1997 year.

When this used machine arrive USA, Stefan faced some issue during installation. He need some spare parts to test this equipment. In fact, it is not necessary for me to send any parts to him for testing equipment, but I do so in the whole installation process. In order to keep good relationship with him, we have very positive attitude to help him to solve problems.

I do not think Stefan have good personality. He put our private email on the web and let everyone see. You can image if your business friend list your business email on the web or another common place and let everyone see freely, how do you think about it?

So, clever people can judge who is right in this business, and who has good credit in business.

I feel so sad today to see these imputations from my business friend Stefan.

Thank you all!

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The thing makes me very angry is that: When we communicated by EMAIL from August 3,2005 to negotiate how to help Stefan to solve the issues, Stefan has already post the thread ��used equipment from china�� on website http://www.smtnet.com and make imputation to me. In fact, I am cheated by Stefan, because I did not know what he did to me until today(August 19,2005) During this period, in order to show my truth and keep good relationship with Stefan, I had sent him three kinds of spare parts in two times, include the additional nozzle changer for RV head that Stefan need. Everyone can judge who is honest. Thank you all!

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