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My question is: Where are all the jobs... I have been worki... - Jul 12, 2002 by CJN

I know one OEM in Pitt-PA looking for a good Mfg.Eng. They t... - Jul 12, 2002 by PeteC

I am having the same luck as you. Been out of work since ear... - Jul 12, 2002 by DL

Could this be the contract-house effect? As OEM's outsource ... - Jul 12, 2002 by

Do you have any contacts that I can call upon? ... - Jul 13, 2002 by CJN

There are jobs out there....you just need to know where and ... - Jul 14, 2002 by CAL

Yea we all are ... - Jul 14, 2002 by JOHNW

Frustrated? Where do I start. Our company just lost a cont... - Jul 15, 2002 by Dennis O'Donnell

Getting more technology for less money also means the worker... - Jul 15, 2002 by CC to myself

What Claude said rings alot of truth. I feel we (the cunsume... - Jul 15, 2002 by LarryK

There was an interesting article in the San Jose Mercury New... - Jul 16, 2002 by CarlN

Yep, much of the same story here. Former company closed in J... - Jul 16, 2002 by dragonslayr

Thanks for all your input, I see that there are a lot of fru... - Jul 19, 2002 by CJN

A lot of what people are complaining about is why the Americ... - Jul 21, 2002 by CAL

We are drifting deeper into market philosophy... Yes, capita... - Jul 22, 2002 by CC to myself

I'm glad to see so much awareness of the challanges the US m... - Jul 23, 2002 by Patrick Bruneel

I'm with you Patrick. I make it a point to not buy anything... - Jul 24, 2002 by Dennis O'Donnell

Siemans is the Chinese "Knock-off" Version of the German Ele... - Jul 25, 2002 by CAL

Here Downunder, I spoke with few SMT equipt suppliers and ... - Jul 26, 2002 by

Cal- Your statement about Fuji owning the market in the 8... - Jul 27, 2002 by Fastek

When you buy a cordless phone that is made in China, do you ... - Jul 27, 2002 by SaiWong

Buy American is the answer, however we must also change busi... - Jul 30, 2002 by

What I believe is the problem with American business's today... - Jul 31, 2002 by Fastek

Cal and everyone else on this forum I completely agree. Ev... - Jul 31, 2002 by Ken Bliss

CJN

Is Anyone? | 12 July, 2002

My question is: Where are all the jobs... I have been working in this industry for 11 years, got laid-off a few months ago and it seems all the companies are too scared to hire additional staff, or they moved down south or overseas. Where are all the US job? Should I brush up on my Spanish or Chinese? Anyone else frustrated as me?

CjN

Is Anyone? | 12 July, 2002

I know one OEM in Pitt-PA looking for a good Mfg.Eng. They told me they've been advertizing the job for months. They tell me they've recieved a good quantity of applicants but the quality was low.

Is Anyone? | 12 July, 2002

I am having the same luck as you. Been out of work since early November 2001.

Best luck I have had is Monster.com, and remember that a LOT of companies are going through Temp. Agencies. I've run in to situations, a handfull of times where the employer wanted an SMT operator capable of reworking fine pitch parts, knowledgable with ISO & IPC Standards. AND!!!! they wanted that person to be able to run the wavesolder during smt line downtime!!!!!! ALL FOR 8.50 an HOUR!!!!!!!! I saw this numerous times.

OhioD

Is Anyone? | 12 July, 2002

Could this be the contract-house effect? As OEM's outsource their builds to more and more contract manufacturers, the old way of thinking for the electronics industry will diminish. The picture of the old union shop with long-term contracts, job security, and high pay, has vaporized in other industries, why not electronics? Smaller, more adaptable job-shops are growing rapidly. This is where the jobs went. There are tons of electronic contract-houses all over my region, big and small. Don't expect OEM-level pay, though.

CJN

Is Anyone? | 13 July, 2002

Do you have any contacts that I can call upon?

Is Anyone? | 14 July, 2002

There are jobs out there....you just need to know where and what. If you are looking at Original Equipment manufacturers (Fuji,Siemens,exc.....) or CM's good luck!

1) you must be able to travel a fair amount 2)you may need to relocate. With that said, a dynamic background is needed. OEM's of electronics assembly equipment have reduced staff to the point there are some awesome technichians/Engineers picking up the select jobs at existing customers. Dynamic background you ask....A person with Capital Equipment experience, materials experience, analytical experience, failure analysis experience..need I go on.....is what people are looking for (i.e. Loctite HINT-HINT)). Also note Sanmina-SCI has jumped into the MEDICAL assemby field. (HINT- http://www.monster.com....job search...biomedical/ pharmaceutical.......key word Search word automation....this should open about 100 new jobs fer ya) Yes they are specific and want specific backgrounds but the qualified people will hook on.

One more nugget...to think about....www.lmco.com and if that aint good enough last hint (as I wisper) military manufacturing........

OK Loctite with 15 jobs....Monster-Biomed Automation 100 Jobs....LMCO with 10 Bazillion Jobs....Plus the other related nuggets = BIG Cash...I should be a recruiter retaining 33% of a based salary for placed candidates.

OK OK ...yes times do suck for the electronics industry...but its the creative people (not personal- just general) that can find the gem in the rough

And Yes I am entertaining offers

Best of luck to all, Cal

Is Anyone? | 14 July, 2002

Yea we all are

Dennis O'Donnell

Is Anyone? | 15 July, 2002

Frustrated? Where do I start. Our company just lost a contract assembly job we have been providing to Altera Corp for five years. They sent it overseas to China. We had to lay everyone off at our assembly facility. Yeah, you better learn to speak Chinese or Spanish or some language other than English. How is a U.S. Company like ours that has to comply with labor laws and wage requirements supposed to compete with companies in countries that have no regulation and may employ child labor? Why are large U.S. Corporations allowed to contract to Companies overseas that have no labor laws and may employ child labor while at the same time these Corporations are coming in our U.S. facilities and auditing us, going through our files and telling us we need to follow labor laws, post signs, pay proper wages, install ESD, have a quality policy, show maintenance logs, then turn around and say that they can get the work done cheaper in China or Mexico. No Shit! I don't get it. Do you?

CC to myself

Is Anyone? | 15 July, 2002

Getting more technology for less money also means the workers have to work more for less pay... consumer culture of demanding ever more gadgets for less money forces manufacturing to cut cost everywhere. The current standard of living in North America and Europe cannot deal with the economics of cheap gadgets. To support the salaries of the unionised workforce, the sale price of gadgets will have to rise. Right now, the price of gadgets are going down, so something has to give somewhere. If I build ladders for $10 but the customers cannot afford it, I have to lower my prices or go under...

Is Anyone? | 15 July, 2002

What Claude said rings alot of truth. I feel we (the cunsumer) has caused this problem. We want everything cheaper, one trip to your electronics superstore will prove that.

The products that are still here are the new designs or even prototypes. Something that has been build for more then 3 years has the bugs worked out and can be build abroad. If I was looking, I would find a company that is doing something unusual. Be it new technology, low volume or phototypes.

Is Anyone? | 16 July, 2002

There was an interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News about this. Go to: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/local/3654508.htm

dragonslayr

Is Anyone? | 16 July, 2002

Yep, much of the same story here. Former company closed in January, put out over 300 resumes (internet, etc.), not one phone call in 6 months. Was prepping the house for sale rather than foreclosure. Had a former co-worker call me, got a job in minutes (just last week)

Network, network, network.

Everything works and nuthin' works. Good luck.

CJN

Is Anyone? | 19 July, 2002

Thanks for all your input, I see that there are a lot of frustrated people in America today, but times will get better for all of us very soon. Keep the faith and the world will be yours.

Take Care and Good Luck in whatever you choose to do in life.

ChrisN

Is Anyone? | 21 July, 2002

A lot of what people are complaining about is why the American Electronics industry is in demand. To use the example of a $10 ladder and to cut the price....Well you keep cutting the price mean while the guy next door making ladders is not just a ladder but a work bench, a scafold, can manuver stairs, and it is made of light weight material. What I am trying to say it is capitalism at its best. Capitalize on someones misfortune....and make it better. If everyones ladder was $10 what would be the driving force behind inginuity? Look at Fuji from the mid '80's..sitting #1 on top of the world and not a worry in the world..All of a sudden...Here comes UIC, Siemens, Philips, Panasonic all stealing market share and knocking them out of the top seed. Truely incredible.

What we are seeing in the elctronics industry today is not $ of consumer gadgets.....but the lack of a technology boom. In the '80's it was the PC market, in the early '90's it was the pager...then the cell phone then the internet....the internet grew so fast people focused on that industry and it collapsed or did not sustain. Now the internet has leveled out, pagers are all but gone, Cell phones are over saturated....so where is the next technology break through?.....Photonics...not quite yet....Hybrid cars??...Digital cable and communications......I am sure.....High defintion TV, close. The electronics industry needs another Technology Break through to carry us out. The Japanese make some of the best electronics and there market has been down for three years......

My bet is on Digital cable/High Definition TV.

As for Mexico goes...yeah everyone and there brother went there to build.....then the Mexicans started to demand more $ and the Government started putting in Laws and now the companies demand more $$ and we get charged more. So what is the next alternative? China....After China there will be others..Brazil, Turkey, India, Russia...who knows.

I do know two Giants are Home Depot and QVC(a US Cable department store)....hmmmmmm Do it your self and Cable Purchasing....Take that one step further (Toyota already has started to impliment) No cars on the lot at a dealer but you can build a car from the internet and see a 3d full panoramic image, have it built and delivered with in 5 days. AGAIN Digital Cable, High Def TV.

HANG TOUGH Colleagues.......We can and will get through this.

-GPS ON Golf Balls, Neat -Eye scans for identification, cool -all in one cell, PDA, TV, Radio, eh -"Mood Ring" paint schemes on Automobiles to avoid road rage, Hope not -Debit postage stamps sure why not James Bond is cool Due to his cool gadgets (Hot chicks helped also)not his British accent.

Cal

CC to myself

Is Anyone? | 22 July, 2002

We are drifting deeper into market philosophy... Yes, capitalism is the motor to a healty market economy. "Running to catch up on the latest gadgets even if my 10 year old cell phone is still working fine and fills all my needs" cannot be sustained. Consumers soon find themselves up to their neck into debt. The gadgets just keep coming faster than the pay checks.

New technology? Yes, what will be the next consumer magnet? The information tech is near the theoretical limit, but what is already available has surpassed the capacity of the average brain to absorb all the informations. I have cable modem and surf the science news for 2-4 hrs every night and still can't keep up. the next technology breakthrough has to deal with enhancing the human brain and body in order to enjoy what the present technology offers. Start with rom module that can be plugged directly into the brain: need to know how to take apart that engine? no problem, just plug the shop manual for said engine into your brain and voila! Instant knowledge! Yeah! There's your answer.

Patrick Bruneel

Is Anyone? | 23 July, 2002

I'm glad to see so much awareness of the challanges the US manufacturing industry is facing. But in problem solving you first have to realize that there is a problem before a solution can be worked out. I firmly believe that if we could convince the american people to buy and value products "made in USA" we would be out of this hole in no time and investors would get the confidence back in the US economy. Do a test in your own house and try to locate something made in USA you will be surprised how long it will take you to find something if you find anything at all.

Good luck.

Patrick

Dennis O'Donnell

Is Anyone? | 24 July, 2002

I'm with you Patrick. I make it a point to not buy anything made in China. Not just because it isn't made in America, but it usually breaks as soon as you get it out of the box. There should be a law against selling some of this stuff, just because it is pure junk. Some of the stuff is so cheap that you wouldn't waste your time in line to get a refund. Making me think that this was the plan to begin with.

When you start to make an issue not to buy Chinese, you'll realize just how hard it is. Almost everything is made in China. They don't need to nuke us or take us over. We're willingly sending China all of our money, jobs and just about the whole store.

Ever try to buy a cordless telephone not made in China. How many cordless phones did you have to buy or exchange before you finally got one home that would work for more than 3 feet.

I found a Siemans cordless phone. Siemans is a German company. Funny thing, the phone was made in America. Go Siemans!

Shall I go on?

Is Anyone? | 25 July, 2002

Siemans is the Chinese "Knock-off" Version of the German Electronics Company....the real deal is the SIEMENS version.

Sorry just a little humor on a touchy topic....no need to respond.

Dreamsniper

Is Anyone? | 26 July, 2002

Here Downunder, I spoke with few SMT equipt suppliers and they said that many small companies bought machines since after the Sept. 11 incident. Info Tech is really down here but electronics manufacturing is rising at a slow rate but it's still hard to find a job....

Is Anyone? | 27 July, 2002

Cal-

Your statement about Fuji owning the market in the 80's is not quite true. If you look at what was happening in those days...before CM's had any penetration, Panasonic was the big dog because they targeted the OEM's and crapped on the CM's. Made sense at the time based on what was happening in the market. Fuji took a chance and designed and marketed equipment for the CM market. It wasn't until the CM business exploded did Fuji take off. They absolutely dominate the market by a long shot these days. I would venture to guess that for every 100 machines sold in the last 5 years, Fuji sold 75 of them and PFA, UIC, Seimens etc. TOGETHER sold the other 25. I have no facts to back that up but it's a gut feeling. Would be interesting to get the facts on that one.

As far as out-sourcing goes, this is not the first time the market has gravitated overseas. Something like this happened 10 years ago...albeit not to this extent. The thing I remember about that was after a while, many of the firms that sent products overseas eventually brought them back as they were less than satisfied with the results. It might take a year or two but I believe the cycle will shift back in our favor again.

Is Anyone? | 27 July, 2002

When you buy a cordless phone that is made in China, do you know how much money they made on each phone? 50 cents only. Who takes all the profit? Contract provider. Walmart, AT&T, Thomson etc. The US contract provides make smart money. They don't have to have a factory, they can cut the contract whenever they want to.

- One of the 2 percenters -

Is Anyone? | 30 July, 2002

Buy American is the answer, however we must also change business ethics. US business has devalued quality and bolstered their legal departments!!! It is easier to make legal statements defending your product when it fails, rather then pay educated, experienced people to design and build the product in the first place. The consumer has to speak up. Take a look at the news. When a company fails, is it the owner who is left poor??? It is time we make a stand. Look in the mirror! You need to take action! What have you done to try and change things??? Or were you like the other 98% of this industry, riding the wave while you could, until you wiped out?

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

Is Anyone? | 31 July, 2002

What I believe is the problem with American business's today is simple: greed. Over the last 5 years due to the stock market frenzy, companies became obsessed with shareholder value and the price of the stock. So much pressure was put on the CEO of a company to keep the stock price inflated that it became the only thing that mattered. Damn the quality, damn the employees....as long as the stock price was kept at a certain level (which of course triggered the obscene stock options of the CEO), eveyone was happy. This mindset has become the norm so much so that a company like Solectron can completely pull up it's roots, eliminate thousands of jobs, and declare that they are moving everything to China and nobody says a damn thing about it. Hey...if it means their stock can get back to 10 someday, that's all that matters right? This business philosophy must change or this country will be in serious trouble. And finally, how smart is it to jump in bed so hard and so quickly with a communist country like China? We're in a constant state of walking on eggshells with them yet it's OK to hand them our electronics manufacturing business on a silver platter. Or when the day comes that Cisco is up in arms because a company in China stole their technology and are selling high end routers for half the cost due to Solectron building all of Cisco's boards in China....I will laugh my a** off.

Ken Bliss

Is Anyone? | 31 July, 2002

Cal and everyone else on this forum I completely agree. Everyone needs to keep in mind, not everything is going over to China. The press says it is, they also told us the stock market was great and then they said the stock market was bad. The media controls to much of our minds and not the facts. China currently has some competitive advantages, however in my opinion history will repeat itself because people in America have the ingenuity to create better and new products. We also know how to become more competitive over time. Remember competitive does not just me the lowest price it means the lowest cost of ownership. It takes consumers 1-3 years of problems with things before they realize that a little more money up front is a much cheaper price to pay. An example is cell phone. All of the products are terrible quality and I leave no one out, I have bought the most expensive and the cheapest. They all need to overhaul their respective products and charge a fair profitable price for a reliable phone and a reliable cell network. That will happen in the next couple of years as the shake out of that industry matures. Beside the face plate is where the money is (sorry for the factual humor there). The U.S. will prevail but everyone needs to look at the products they build, the processes and efficiencies they employ and continue to aggressively improve the quality of the products they ship. Its not simple it take real effort and work by real people like you and me.

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