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Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement

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Is anyone successfully and repeatably placing 0402 or 0201 c... - Jan 16, 2015 by robgd3

The GSM can place the part from a XY positioning standpoint ... - Jan 16, 2015 by JAX

We did 0402s for years on a GSM. Is this a flexjet or a 4 sp... - Jan 16, 2015 by Comatose

GSMs are great machines for many parts, but for the small pa... - Jan 16, 2015 by Evtimov

It's a four-spindle head. I've already learned the joys of ... - Jan 16, 2015 by robgd3

Evtimov, I would love to look at a more contemporary machine... - Jan 16, 2015 by robgd3

I doubt you will be able to get satisfactory results with 02... - Jan 16, 2015 by Deni

We can offer several nozzles to assist with the placement of... - Jan 19, 2015 by Count On Tools

Rob, I know the things are not always as we like them :).... - Jan 19, 2015 by Evtimov

Well put, Evtimov! :) I've made my argument against it. ... - Jan 20, 2015 by robgd3

robgd3

#73339

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

Is anyone successfully and repeatably placing 0402 or 0201 components with an older GSM?

We're looking at the possibility of quoting a new job with 0201's, and I need to assess the capabilities of the machine before I commit to the job. I've never placed them before with any machine, so, I'm mildly concerned about the quality/repeatability that I will get out of the GSM.

Thanks, ..rob

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JAX

#73340

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

The GSM can place the part from a XY positioning standpoint without issue. You'll have to look at what camera you have to know if the machine can inspect it. After that you need to decide if your feeders can accurately provide the part to the machine in a repeatable manner... this is normally where it all goes wrong, regardless of the manufacturer or vintage of a machine.

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Comatose

#73342

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

We did 0402s for years on a GSM. Is this a flexjet or a 4 spindle head? A flexjet is easy with 0402s. The four spindle nozzles are big, you run into issues with knocking already places parts and having to Z zone carefully (and beware repair cycles.) Especially with an 08mpf. Count on tools makes a 06mpf which helps a lot.

I'd be skeptical about 0201s.

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Evtimov

#73343

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

GSMs are great machines for many parts, but for the small parts you should look for something better and more contemporary. As it was mentioned in one of the previous posts, the feeder is a big key. I don't think there is feeder for GSM that can supply small parts(weren't feeders for GSM all mechanical with pneumatic cylinder?). I currently have new ASM machines(0201 is good) and a little bit older Siemens machines(their feeders are not good enough for 0201parts). Used to run 0201 on new Juki 2060(mechanical feeders)- was not perfect but still was working. On Universal Advantis I used to run 0402 without issues(they had these smart electrical feeders).

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robgd3

#73345

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

It's a four-spindle head. I've already learned the joys of the size of the nozzles...on a job that had an 0603 cap a bit too close to an SOIC. The first panel ran, and the cap placed after the IC...and I had parts everywhere. Got it figured out and fixed after the second panel ran (thankfully, there were only 20 boards/panel, and only ~30 parts/board).

Is the 08MPF about the smallest nozzle I can get? I found an article on the UIC knowledge base about placing 0201's...and they recommended a different nozzle...but, I can't find enough information about the nozzle they recommeded to determine if it'll fit on this machine (and since it's an $800 nozzle, I'd like to know it works before I order it!).

I'm super skeptical about 0201's...heck, I'm pretty skeptical about 0402's, based on experiences I've had with older MyData's (TP vintage).

..rob

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robgd3

#73346

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

Evtimov, I would love to look at a more contemporary machine! Or, jobs that fit better on the machine that we have.

However; a. we're a start up, and the GSM was here before I was; and b. we're a start up, in the EMS world, and sometimes, don't get to gripe about the work customers want to give us :)

The feeders are pneumatic and electric. Some of the newer feeders that we have work electronically, rather than pneumatically, and have adjustable pitches. I believe that the smallest indexing pitch is 2mm. The degree of accuracy, however...well, that I don't know. They are older feeders, there's a fair amount of mechanical items in them. Could be hit or miss, I'd guess.

..rob

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Deni

#73347

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 16 January, 2015

I doubt you will be able to get satisfactory results with 0201. 0402 is another story. When doing 0402 projects, we use only electric (MP) feeders and always at the same feeder slots (feeder teach done for each of them). MPF08 nozzle works fine. Also, we use modified pick process (spindle goes down, stops before touchdown, moves down slowly and picks the part) when mounting 0402's. It slows down the cycle for 20%. Camera is 1MPP, but it worked with 2.6MPP too. Head is Flex (4 spindle).

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Count On Tools

#73355

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 19 January, 2015

We can offer several nozzles to assist with the placement of 0402/0201 components in the four-spindle head. We offer the 06MPF along with custom ceramic tipped nozzles. Most of our standard nozzles for this head type are less than $125.00 each.

Check them out here: http://www.nozzles4smt.com/GSM-FlexInline-4-4-Spindle-Head_c_138.html

Or message me for me information.

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Evtimov

#73357

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 19 January, 2015

Rob,

I know the things are not always as we like them :)....but people should understand that with the equipment you have you can't really work on 0201 jobs, so they shouldn't take any of these. I can design and build a helicopter, if I have the right tools and enough time....

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robgd3

#73365

Universal GSM and 0402/0201 Placement | 20 January, 2015

Well put, Evtimov! :)

I've made my argument against it. I'm not comfortable taking a job placing parts outside the capabilities of the machine in general, much less parts that I can't actually see! The machine is good down to .5mm pitch parts, and I'm happy to place a .4mm pitch TQFP. That has the ability to be checked, and easily reworked. 0201's?? Ugh...I'm imagining trying to rework them if something goes wrong, and it's not a fun process!!

At this point, I'm not even sure if we're going to get to quote the job...it's a possibility on the horizon, and, at least sparked me to do some research. I've recommended that if we're going to try to move forward on something like this (and, if it's lucrative enough, we just might try), that we need to design a test board, buy a reel of parts, and see what we can and can't accomplish with the machine. I'll spend the time testing up front before I quote a customer and commit to something that I'm not sure of.

Thanks for the help! ..rob

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