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Would YOU accept this PCB ???

Would YOU accept this PCB ???

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See them funky via pads ?? What's your opinions ? Junk or... - Aug 14, 2008 by Paul M.

Am I Correct to say that the Via's Annular Rings are broken ... - Aug 14, 2008 by smt_guy

NO WAY I had seen this 10 years ago, and got into a 'p' ma... - Aug 14, 2008 by PRoy

Hi Paul, My discloser, I sell for an offshore house, this... - Aug 15, 2008 by BoardHouse

This is how the Chinese say "HI"! ... - Aug 16, 2008 by WaveMasterLarry

Tolerance stack up has really become an interesting issue wi... - Aug 18, 2008 by Real Chunks

Just curious, how are you MOSTLY chinese? ... - Aug 18, 2008 by garyr

Mixed race between mom and dad. What does THIS have to do w... - Aug 18, 2008 by Real Chunks

Nothing really... I guess my dry sense of humor doesn't tr... - Aug 19, 2008 by garyr

I could break it down for you, but to most - being Asian is ... - Aug 19, 2008 by Real Chunks

Chunks... You are pretty damn awesome! Anyways, in reg... - Aug 20, 2008 by garyr

What boards? LOL ... - Aug 20, 2008 by Hussman

Giggidy-Giggidy ... - Aug 20, 2008 by Paul Richardson

Thanks for your replies. The problems do not appear on th... - Aug 21, 2008 by Paul M.

IPC-A-600 ... - Aug 21, 2008 by Judy Brown

Paul, I would do two things, eval whole lot for any etchi... - Aug 22, 2008 by BoardHouse

Paul M.

#55989

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 14 August, 2008

See them funky via pads ??

What's your opinions ? Junk or acceptable ??

Anyone know of an IPC manual that has pics and standards of defective and acceptable PCB's ??

Thanks

Attachments:

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smt_guy

#55990

Would YOU except this PCB ??? | 14 August, 2008

Am I Correct to say that the Via's Annular Rings are broken or incomplete? If they are then that's an automatic Failed.

regards

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PRoy

#55991

Would YOU except this PCB ??? | 14 August, 2008

NO WAY I had seen this 10 years ago, and got into a 'p' match with the PCB fabricator. We had failures after wave solder, the thermal ezpansion caused cracks in the 'knee' where the skinny little trace go's over into the barrel. even if not failing when new, it will soon fail in the field. I am certian there are specs in ipc610, I think they allow annular ring to be incomplete, but I think it needs to be at least 70% there. I can look this up if you like. Pete

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BoardHouse

#55993

Would YOU except this PCB ??? | 15 August, 2008

Hi Paul,

My discloser, I sell for an offshore house, this is Crap....

Section 3.4.3 Annular Ring (External) of IPC-6012A, which also calls out Table 3-5, states that "Plated-through holes identified as vias can have up to 90 degrees breakout of the annular ring if it does not occur at the conductor and land intersection."

by IPC spec's this would not be acceptable by any means, Breakout is more than allowed by Class 2 standards + it is broke out to the circuit. Drilling is mis-registerd plus copper is over etched.

I would reject this product do to poor workmen ship and have them re-build.

Was the whole lot like this?

Regards,

Boardhouse

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WaveMasterLarry

#56007

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 16 August, 2008

This is how the Chinese say "HI"!

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Real Chunks

#56023

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 18 August, 2008

Tolerance stack up has really become an interesting issue with boards coming from China. What has usually been taken for granted has to be looked into with a fine tooth comb. Most board houses of the past would reject this - but China figures "If it fits your tolerance stack-up, it's you board." We have seen it on about two dozen of the few hundred boards being made in China now. It's a cat and mouse game that you have to become diligent at. Another area that is a big concern is the layer to layer spacing. Again if it's not in black and white, it is assumed anything goes. I'm not slamming the Chinese (since I am mostly Chinese myself) but you have to learn it's their culture to produce things like this if it meets your quality criteria.

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garyr

#56031

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 18 August, 2008

Just curious, how are you MOSTLY chinese?

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Real Chunks

#56033

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 18 August, 2008

Mixed race between mom and dad. What does THIS have to do with surface mount?

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garyr

#56051

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 19 August, 2008

Nothing really... I guess my dry sense of humor doesn't translate very well through the forum... When you said MOSTLY that would seem to mean that you are more than 50% chinese, which I guess is possible. Sorry for not being funny. I will make sure to stay professional. I wasn't trying to be offensive.

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Real Chunks

#56060

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 19 August, 2008

I could break it down for you, but to most - being Asian is just that, being Asian. I would say I am 75% Chinese and 25% percent "other". Breaking down that part would take too long, so my picture will have to do. The point I was making was I am not cutting on the Chinese, as I am part Chinese.

Attachments:

Me Chi.jpg

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garyr

#56067

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 20 August, 2008

Chunks... You are pretty damn awesome!

Anyways, in regards to the original thread, we do get good boards from china as well, but we have had issues with stack-up tolerances and even mouse bite (drilled break away) tabs. Not to long ago, we left the assumption open with no detail on the arrayed drawing for the tabs - the bite marks were along the side with the rail and not the PCB, leaving .0625" tabs all over the edges of the board.

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Hussman

#56068

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 20 August, 2008

What boards? LOL

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Paul Richardson

#56081

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 20 August, 2008

Giggidy-Giggidy

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Paul M.

#56092

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 21 August, 2008

Thanks for your replies.

The problems do not appear on the complete lot of PCB's. I don't know the percentage at this point.

I agree. It also appears to me that these PCB's are over-etched.

The PCB rep say's "Yea, there's a few boards that have problems, but the majority of them adhere to IPC specs".

Whatever....I have my doubts. I'm concerned about problems with these assemblies down the road, that we have to warranty, and repair. I don't trust any PCB from this lot now. But we have no "ammo" to argue this point.

So................

We have ordered the IPC-A-600G book to help us evaluate these types of PCB issues.

Knowledge is power.

Here's another pic of the PPPCB (PPPCB = Piss Poor Printed Circuit Board).

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Judy Brown

#56095

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 21 August, 2008

IPC-A-600

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BoardHouse

#56117

Would YOU accept this PCB ??? | 22 August, 2008

Paul,

I would do two things, eval whole lot for any etching issues as shown above and scrap and two I would have your copper thickness checked, my guess your copper plating will be low. Check plating thickness in Via holes - if less then 8/10th's reject them all.

My guess is that your entire lot will show signs of etching and low copper issues unless the boards were run in different lots if that is the case then sort boards by date code.

Regards,

Boardhouse

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