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Germanium doping of SN100

Germanium doping of SN100

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Has anyone heard of this? I was told that this would help S... - Dec 13, 2007 by James

What a coincidence! Our last solder analysis showed our Ge t... - Dec 17, 2007 by CC to myself

OH MY GOD!! Finally it's becoming public knowledge here on t... - Dec 17, 2007 by Bruce Barton

Ha! We do our tin analyis at Alpha and they don't list Ge (... - Dec 18, 2007 by Loco

A google search on his subject brings several reports on the... - Dec 18, 2007 by CC to myself

CC True enough, indisputable and factual...my whole point wa... - Dec 18, 2007 by Bruce Barton

I totally agree with you on that point, and can only suggest... - Dec 18, 2007 by CC to myself

Over here in Eurolandia the following Allois are running lik... - Dec 20, 2007 by GSx

Gentlemen, This is an interesting topic. If one refers t... - Dec 21, 2007 by Howard Stevens

James

#52889

Germanium doping of SN100 | 13 December, 2007

Has anyone heard of this? I was told that this would help SN100 in the wave solder by making it flow better at a lower temperature?

Thanks

James

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CC to myself

#52927

Germanium doping of SN100 | 17 December, 2007

What a coincidence! Our last solder analysis showed our Ge to be .001% and the lab recommended to bring it up to .005% to get a better wetting. They even supplied a formula to calculate the amount to add based on the % and the quantity of solder in the bath. Contact your solder supplier.

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Bruce Barton

#52938

Germanium doping of SN100 | 17 December, 2007

OH MY GOD!! Finally it's becoming public knowledge here on the streets. YES germanium is in this material. As much as these guys and ALPHA METALS wanted to keep these things secret, anyone with a halfway competent lab would quicky find out why all of a sudden the process they spent hours or days developing went to crap. SO many people spend SO much time trying new fluxes (read STRONGER) with their potential for electromigration, or simply crank up the deposition on their boards, when simple communication would provide the solution. To ALPHA's credit...They went public quite a while back and even have additive "pellets" you can order from your supplier to replenish your wave. Don't know about SN100....

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Loco

#52942

Germanium doping of SN100 | 18 December, 2007

Ha! We do our tin analyis at Alpha and they don't list Ge (that doesnt mean they don't check it). Next time a German Dope head takes a tour in our factory, I'll try to push him in our solderpot and let you know if ze board get ze better wetting.

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CC to myself

#52945

Germanium doping of SN100 | 18 December, 2007

A google search on his subject brings several reports on the effect of germanium on LF solder, notably reduction in bridging and icicles, better wetting and reduction on dross production.

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Bruce Barton

#52948

Germanium doping of SN100 | 18 December, 2007

CC True enough, indisputable and factual...my whole point was that there was NO communication from the company(s) or the peddlers on the subject, causing an unimaginable number of wave operators, engineers, production managers and CUSTOMERS to pull out their hair in frustration. Is manufacturing with LF do-able? yes. Do you need to throw out everything you ever learned about making strong, reliable solder joints? no. Is there a big mystery to it? somewhat, and it has been perpetuated by a lack of clear communication by big wig companies who are only interested in chasing the almighty dollar. That's not a bad thing in and of itself OK, but why make everyones life miserable in the mean time?

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CC to myself

#52952

Germanium doping of SN100 | 18 December, 2007

I totally agree with you on that point, and can only suggest complaining to your supplier about it. I guess I'm fortunate enough to have a supplier that care enough to keep me informed about stuff like that and suggest the proper corrective method. Same thing can be said about solder/dross separation techniques, but that is another subject...

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GSx

#52998

Germanium doping of SN100 | 20 December, 2007

Over here in Eurolandia the following Allois are running like a piece of cake.

http://www.krepro.no/tinn_pasta_fluss/NiGe-Stangtinn.pdf

It is FUJI patent Formula, sold in Eurolandia by FELDER Germany

Really a good help in the Lead Free Wave Solder Proces and with Mini Wave Rework, almost zero copper dissolution.

Best Regards

GSx

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Howard Stevens

#53017

Germanium doping of SN100 | 21 December, 2007

Gentlemen,

This is an interesting topic. If one refers to the Nihon Superior patent, they make the following claims. "Germanium makes the crystal finer when the alloy solidifies. Germanium appears on a grain boundary, preventing the crystal from becoming coarse. The addition of germanium prevents oxide compounds from developing during the solution process of the alloy." These are patent claims and not proofs. The tested truth is that the nickel additive (like cobalt and other grain refiners)creates a tight grain structure culminating in a bright, shiny solder joint.

The patent itself is 99.5% related to tin/copper/nickel. Germanium is one paragraph and not even in the major claims. If germanium is so important, why does the patent not make more mention of it?

Nihon references germanium at 0.02%. At this percentage, the germanium is incidental to the alloy's performance. To our knowledge, no testing exists that shows the addition of germanium adds anything to the performance of any solder alloy. It was origiinally added as a marketing ploy to help provide uniqueness to the alloy so it would be easier to get the alloy patented.

You are correct that for eight years, Nihon has been touting this alloy and has never mentioned germanium. Now all of a sudden they are promoting it. Why? Because other solder manufacturers have come out with other tin/copper/additive lead free alloys that perform as well as, or better than, the SN100C with no germanium.

Again, no testing exists that shows the addition of germanium has any positive effect on a lead free solder alloy.

Howard Stevens Meallic Resources, Inc.

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